Last edit by: BadgerBoi
The Definitive Guide to Seat Poaching
1. Don't do it.
2. Alternatively to #1: Asking politely (and not demanding) to swap for an equal or better seat is acceptable by most (but the final decision always lays with the original seat holder)...but, be warned, some FT'ers may breathe fire at you.
3. Keep in mind that Point 2 is not seat poaching.
1. Don't do it.
2. Alternatively to #1: Asking politely (and not demanding) to swap for an equal or better seat is acceptable by most (but the final decision always lays with the original seat holder)...but, be warned, some FT'ers may breathe fire at you.
3. Keep in mind that Point 2 is not seat poaching.
Seat Swapping, Seat Poaching and Seating Etiquette: The Definitive Thread
#1456
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,639
And this illustrates WHY I never give up a seat if asked (unless I am getting a better seat in trade, which I never am) and why I boot poachers without even considering their predicament.
It's a competition. A competition for comfort. A competition for ease of the travel experience. A competition to be first to snag that seat over all the others who want it. It means being willing to spend the extra $$ vs someone who isn't. It means being knowledgeable about booking seats in advance vs an ignorant kettle who asks for seats at the airport check-in. It means having some status to leaverage vs someone who doesn't. it's a matter of luck too, avoiding IRROPS and random issues vs. the poor sucker who became a victim of them.
When you get that seat, you won the competition. It's dog eat dog. Sorry...those who are weak perish, those who are strong get the exit row aisle.
I would love to be able to offer platitudes about feeling good by being nice to someone in need. If that's your bag, fine. You chose to give it away and sit in the middle. Your choice. But me? No. I can feel sympathy for a person's predicament...if it's not completely of their own making...but not enough to give up what I fought for and won.
I think Karma is a superstitious and irrational notion. Thinking kind acts will come back to you someday is a fine Disney narrative, but not a dimension of reality as we know it.
I think courtesy is not bothering other people. Asking for a swap is discourteous, not refusing a swap.
It's a competition. A competition for comfort. A competition for ease of the travel experience. A competition to be first to snag that seat over all the others who want it. It means being willing to spend the extra $$ vs someone who isn't. It means being knowledgeable about booking seats in advance vs an ignorant kettle who asks for seats at the airport check-in. It means having some status to leaverage vs someone who doesn't. it's a matter of luck too, avoiding IRROPS and random issues vs. the poor sucker who became a victim of them.
When you get that seat, you won the competition. It's dog eat dog. Sorry...those who are weak perish, those who are strong get the exit row aisle.
I would love to be able to offer platitudes about feeling good by being nice to someone in need. If that's your bag, fine. You chose to give it away and sit in the middle. Your choice. But me? No. I can feel sympathy for a person's predicament...if it's not completely of their own making...but not enough to give up what I fought for and won.
I think Karma is a superstitious and irrational notion. Thinking kind acts will come back to you someday is a fine Disney narrative, but not a dimension of reality as we know it.
I think courtesy is not bothering other people. Asking for a swap is discourteous, not refusing a swap.
It's OK though, it seems to work for you.
#1457
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,304
replace "Asking for" with "Demanding" and I will agree 100%
#1458
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,327
Flew JFK-YYZ last night. I was in 4A. Gentlemen sits down in 4C. Just before boarsing finishes, lady in 4D comes aboard. Puts her stuff away and then ask gentlemen what his seat nunber is. Didn't think anything of it, figuring she was 4c and him 4D. Nope. She was last upgrade and knew 4C was empty. He pulls out BP and its for 19B. Proceeds to act like he thought you just took first available seat while boarding. Perfect English went to broken English with accent real quickly.
#1459
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SYD
Programs: OZ Platinum LifeTime; DL PM; QF Gold; VA Gold; HH Diamond; IHG Diamond
Posts: 1,128
Got on my 6AM LGA-BOS shuttle last week, to find someone sitting in my exit row window seat (21E on the 717, the one with no seat in front of it). I noted that I believed he was in my seat, and he immediately got up and moved to 22E. Yeah, I'm SURE you accidentally took the seat with more legroom than an NBA center could use, rather than the regular economy one a row behind.
#1460
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,736
And this illustrates WHY I never give up a seat if asked (unless I am getting a better seat in trade, which I never am) and why I boot poachers without even considering their predicament.
It's a competition. A competition for comfort. A competition for ease of the travel experience. A competition to be first to snag that seat over all the others who want it. It means being willing to spend the extra $$ vs someone who isn't. It means being knowledgeable about booking seats in advance vs an ignorant kettle who asks for seats at the airport check-in. It means having some status to leaverage vs someone who doesn't. it's a matter of luck too, avoiding IRROPS and random issues vs. the poor sucker who became a victim of them.
When you get that seat, you won the competition. It's dog eat dog. Sorry...those who are weak perish, those who are strong get the exit row aisle.
I would love to be able to offer platitudes about feeling good by being nice to someone in need. If that's your bag, fine. You chose to give it away and sit in the middle. Your choice. But me? No. I can feel sympathy for a person's predicament...if it's not completely of their own making...but not enough to give up what I fought for and won.
I think Karma is a superstitious and irrational notion. Thinking kind acts will come back to you someday is a fine Disney narrative, but not a dimension of reality as we know it.
I think courtesy is not bothering other people. Asking for a swap is discourteous, not refusing a swap.
It's a competition. A competition for comfort. A competition for ease of the travel experience. A competition to be first to snag that seat over all the others who want it. It means being willing to spend the extra $$ vs someone who isn't. It means being knowledgeable about booking seats in advance vs an ignorant kettle who asks for seats at the airport check-in. It means having some status to leaverage vs someone who doesn't. it's a matter of luck too, avoiding IRROPS and random issues vs. the poor sucker who became a victim of them.
When you get that seat, you won the competition. It's dog eat dog. Sorry...those who are weak perish, those who are strong get the exit row aisle.
I would love to be able to offer platitudes about feeling good by being nice to someone in need. If that's your bag, fine. You chose to give it away and sit in the middle. Your choice. But me? No. I can feel sympathy for a person's predicament...if it's not completely of their own making...but not enough to give up what I fought for and won.
I think Karma is a superstitious and irrational notion. Thinking kind acts will come back to you someday is a fine Disney narrative, but not a dimension of reality as we know it.
I think courtesy is not bothering other people. Asking for a swap is discourteous, not refusing a swap.
Demanding? Absolutely discourteous. Getting huffy/attempting to guilt trip if the request is refused? Absolutely discourteous. Asking me to take a worse seat? Absolutely discourteous.
In my case, if the person in 21F had said "sorry, my wife is here in 21E, would you mind taking 21A (identical to 21F, on the other side of the plane) instead," I would have had absolutely no problem with it.
I rarely ask for a swap, but when I do, it's always for a seat that's at least comparable, and often better. As an example, a few months ago, I was on the aisle in the last row of Comfort+ on an E175 (9C maybe?), with my spouse and child across the aisle and in the row behind me in regular economy (10D and 10F for the purposes of the example). I sat in 10C, and kept a close eye out. When the person in 10C was approaching the seat and giving me the "you're in my seat" look, I stood up and asked if they would mind taking 9C. If they had said no, I would have immediately moved, but they were quite pleased to get extra legroom and the snack basket.
Last edited by cestmoi123; Oct 4, 2017 at 8:57 am
#1461
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
I rarely ask for a swap, but when I do, it's always for a seat that's at least comparable, and often better. As an example, a few months ago, I was on the aisle in the last row of Comfort+ on an E175 (9C maybe?), with my spouse and child across the aisle and in the row behind me in regular economy (10D and 10F for the purposes of the example). I sat in 10C, and kept a close eye out. When the person in 10C was approaching the seat and giving me the "you're in my seat" look, I stood up and asked if they would mind taking 9C. If they had said no, I would have immediately moved, but they were quite pleased to get extra legroom and the snack basket.
By poaching the seat you forced the rightful owner into an uncomfortable social situation, even if you THOUGHT you were polite by asking nicely and being willing to move if they said no. They have no idea what your intentions are. Now they board and have to deal with this.
I would have booted you from my seat on principle, and you would have deserved it. Extra legroom or not.
#1462
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
In my case, if the person in 21F had said "sorry, my wife is here in 21E, would you mind taking 21A (identical to 21F, on the other side of the plane) instead," I would have had absolutely no problem with it.
I rarely ask for a swap, but when I do, it's always for a seat that's at least comparable, and often better.
#1465
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,639
Fortunately, there are also many who are willing to share their knowledge.
We've also been newbies, all of us. I'd rather educate others, rather than revere in their ignorance.
#1466
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Yes, but that misses the point. You were talking about why you think it's perfectly fine to ask if you're offering a better seat. That's your rationalization for asking. If I don't think it's a better seat, then, in my mind, there was no justification for asking, and you've interrupted me.
Personally, I don't care if someone asks PROVIDED it's before I'm settled in and have gotten out my music player and put on my headphones, which I do immediately upon taking my seat. If it's after, you've disturbed me and you'd better have a darn good reason for doing so (meaning a reason that I think is darn good).
However, I also have no problem saying, "Sorry, no," to someone who asks me a favor I don't want provide. However, a lot of people do and, at least in my experience, more times than not, the askee starts an argument or, at best, starts whining, "What am I supposed to do?" Those are interactions which I prefer to avoid at all cost.
I'm not saying you do this, and I'm sure you are gracious in accepting a, "Sorry, no," answer but, again, in my experience, that puts you in the minority.
Personally, I don't care if someone asks PROVIDED it's before I'm settled in and have gotten out my music player and put on my headphones, which I do immediately upon taking my seat. If it's after, you've disturbed me and you'd better have a darn good reason for doing so (meaning a reason that I think is darn good).
However, I also have no problem saying, "Sorry, no," to someone who asks me a favor I don't want provide. However, a lot of people do and, at least in my experience, more times than not, the askee starts an argument or, at best, starts whining, "What am I supposed to do?" Those are interactions which I prefer to avoid at all cost.
I'm not saying you do this, and I'm sure you are gracious in accepting a, "Sorry, no," answer but, again, in my experience, that puts you in the minority.
#1467
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,736
You poached a seat. You put your wants..and they are wants, not needs..over someone else. Your child was seated with a parent. There is no reason you HAD to sit together so badly.
By poaching the seat you forced the rightful owner into an uncomfortable social situation, even if you THOUGHT you were polite by asking nicely and being willing to move if they said no. They have no idea what your intentions are. Now they board and have to deal with this.
I would have booted you from my seat on principle, and you would have deserved it. Extra legroom or not.
By poaching the seat you forced the rightful owner into an uncomfortable social situation, even if you THOUGHT you were polite by asking nicely and being willing to move if they said no. They have no idea what your intentions are. Now they board and have to deal with this.
I would have booted you from my seat on principle, and you would have deserved it. Extra legroom or not.
#1468
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MEM
Programs: Starbucks Green Card
Posts: 5,431
Yes, but that misses the point. You were talking about why you think it's perfectly fine to ask if you're offering a better seat. That's your rationalization for asking. If I don't think it's a better seat, then, in my mind, there was no justification for asking, and you've interrupted me.
Personally, I don't care if someone asks PROVIDED it's before I'm settled in and have gotten out my music player and put on my headphones, which I do immediately upon taking my seat. If it's after, you've disturbed me and you'd better have a darn good reason for doing so (meaning a reason that I think is darn good).
However, I also have no problem saying, "Sorry, no," to someone who asks me a favor I don't want provide. However, a lot of people do and, at least in my experience, more times than not, the askee starts an argument or, at best, starts whining, "What am I supposed to do?" Those are interactions which I prefer to avoid at all cost.
I'm not saying you do this, and I'm sure you are gracious in accepting a, "Sorry, no," answer but, again, in my experience, that puts you in the minority.
Personally, I don't care if someone asks PROVIDED it's before I'm settled in and have gotten out my music player and put on my headphones, which I do immediately upon taking my seat. If it's after, you've disturbed me and you'd better have a darn good reason for doing so (meaning a reason that I think is darn good).
However, I also have no problem saying, "Sorry, no," to someone who asks me a favor I don't want provide. However, a lot of people do and, at least in my experience, more times than not, the askee starts an argument or, at best, starts whining, "What am I supposed to do?" Those are interactions which I prefer to avoid at all cost.
I'm not saying you do this, and I'm sure you are gracious in accepting a, "Sorry, no," answer but, again, in my experience, that puts you in the minority.
#1469
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,736
I'm not saying someone SHOULD accept the swap. Their seat, their call. I won't even ASK for a swap, though (and I do it very rarely), unless I think that most people WOULD consider themselves better off, or at very least no worse off. I think my assessments of what's a better seat aligns pretty well with most people's view (more legroom>less, farther forward>farther back, F>C+>Y, Aisle>Window>Middle), but if someone really does prefer a middle to an aisle, or regular economy to C+, then that's entirely their call, and I would never attempt to second-guess it.
#1470
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LAS - where you can get married and divorced in the same 24 hour period. Perfect for the woman who's saving herself for marriage and the man who wants a one night stand.
Programs: DL DM, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond, Marriott Platinum, UA, AA, AS, WN kettle, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,613
No poaching issues until last week. Both flights connecting in CVG.
On DCA - CVG I was upgraded to 4D. When I got on the flight there Was someone in 4D. I asked him if he knew he was in row 4. He said he was confused by the overhead signage. I just sat in 3D.
On CVG - LAS I was on 12C. Someone was on my seat. She asked if I would like to sit in 11B so she could sit next to her daughters - both adults. I said no.
What is with Cincinnati?
On DCA - CVG I was upgraded to 4D. When I got on the flight there Was someone in 4D. I asked him if he knew he was in row 4. He said he was confused by the overhead signage. I just sat in 3D.
On CVG - LAS I was on 12C. Someone was on my seat. She asked if I would like to sit in 11B so she could sit next to her daughters - both adults. I said no.
What is with Cincinnati?