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Seat Swapping, Seat Poaching and Seating Etiquette: The Definitive Thread

Old Jul 14, 2015, 2:48 pm
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Last edit by: BadgerBoi
The Definitive Guide to Seat Poaching

1. Don't do it.
2. Alternatively to #1: Asking politely (and not demanding) to swap for an equal or better seat is acceptable by most (but the final decision always lays with the original seat holder)...but, be warned, some FT'ers may breathe fire at you.
3. Keep in mind that Point 2 is not seat poaching.
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Seat Swapping, Seat Poaching and Seating Etiquette: The Definitive Thread

Old Oct 3, 2017, 4:58 pm
  #1456  
 
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Originally Posted by Proudelitist
And this illustrates WHY I never give up a seat if asked (unless I am getting a better seat in trade, which I never am) and why I boot poachers without even considering their predicament.


It's a competition. A competition for comfort. A competition for ease of the travel experience. A competition to be first to snag that seat over all the others who want it. It means being willing to spend the extra $$ vs someone who isn't. It means being knowledgeable about booking seats in advance vs an ignorant kettle who asks for seats at the airport check-in. It means having some status to leaverage vs someone who doesn't. it's a matter of luck too, avoiding IRROPS and random issues vs. the poor sucker who became a victim of them.

When you get that seat, you won the competition. It's dog eat dog. Sorry...those who are weak perish, those who are strong get the exit row aisle.

I would love to be able to offer platitudes about feeling good by being nice to someone in need. If that's your bag, fine. You chose to give it away and sit in the middle. Your choice. But me? No. I can feel sympathy for a person's predicament...if it's not completely of their own making...but not enough to give up what I fought for and won.

I think Karma is a superstitious and irrational notion. Thinking kind acts will come back to you someday is a fine Disney narrative, but not a dimension of reality as we know it.


I think courtesy is not bothering other people. Asking for a swap is discourteous, not refusing a swap.
I admire your honesty, but yet I find your attitude suboptimal.

It's OK though, it seems to work for you.
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Old Oct 3, 2017, 5:08 pm
  #1457  
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Originally Posted by Proudelitist
... It means being knowledgeable about booking seats in advance vs an ignorant kettle who asks for seats at the airport check-in. .... it's a matter of luck too, avoiding IRROPS and random issues vs. the poor sucker who became a victim of them.
imo much of this arrogance (or, dare I say, elitism) -- while completely characteristic of many FTers -- is also suboptimal
Originally Posted by Proudelitist
I think courtesy is not bothering other people. Asking for a swap is discourteous ...
replace "Asking for" with "Demanding" and I will agree 100%
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Old Oct 3, 2017, 5:34 pm
  #1458  
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Originally Posted by flyerCO
Flew JFK-YYZ last night. I was in 4A. Gentlemen sits down in 4C. Just before boarsing finishes, lady in 4D comes aboard. Puts her stuff away and then ask gentlemen what his seat nunber is. Didn't think anything of it, figuring she was 4c and him 4D. Nope. She was last upgrade and knew 4C was empty. He pulls out BP and its for 19B. Proceeds to act like he thought you just took first available seat while boarding. Perfect English went to broken English with accent real quickly.
A very well practiced routine!
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Old Oct 3, 2017, 5:45 pm
  #1459  
 
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Originally Posted by cestmoi123
Got on my 6AM LGA-BOS shuttle last week, to find someone sitting in my exit row window seat (21E on the 717, the one with no seat in front of it). I noted that I believed he was in my seat, and he immediately got up and moved to 22E. Yeah, I'm SURE you accidentally took the seat with more legroom than an NBA center could use, rather than the regular economy one a row behind.
I'd recline my seat during the flight...
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Old Oct 4, 2017, 8:52 am
  #1460  
 
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Originally Posted by Proudelitist
And this illustrates WHY I never give up a seat if asked (unless I am getting a better seat in trade, which I never am) and why I boot poachers without even considering their predicament.


It's a competition. A competition for comfort. A competition for ease of the travel experience. A competition to be first to snag that seat over all the others who want it. It means being willing to spend the extra $$ vs someone who isn't. It means being knowledgeable about booking seats in advance vs an ignorant kettle who asks for seats at the airport check-in. It means having some status to leaverage vs someone who doesn't. it's a matter of luck too, avoiding IRROPS and random issues vs. the poor sucker who became a victim of them.

When you get that seat, you won the competition. It's dog eat dog. Sorry...those who are weak perish, those who are strong get the exit row aisle.

I would love to be able to offer platitudes about feeling good by being nice to someone in need. If that's your bag, fine. You chose to give it away and sit in the middle. Your choice. But me? No. I can feel sympathy for a person's predicament...if it's not completely of their own making...but not enough to give up what I fought for and won.

I think Karma is a superstitious and irrational notion. Thinking kind acts will come back to you someday is a fine Disney narrative, but not a dimension of reality as we know it.


I think courtesy is not bothering other people. Asking for a swap is discourteous, not refusing a swap.
To each his own. I don't see politely asking someone for something that leaves you better off, but doesn't leave them worse off, as discourteous. That's not asking me to give up anything I had "won." Politely asking me to swap 2C for 3C, or 10C for 10D (in an ABC-DEF configuration)? Sure, fine by me. Makes the requester better off, and leaves me no worse off.

Demanding? Absolutely discourteous. Getting huffy/attempting to guilt trip if the request is refused? Absolutely discourteous. Asking me to take a worse seat? Absolutely discourteous.

In my case, if the person in 21F had said "sorry, my wife is here in 21E, would you mind taking 21A (identical to 21F, on the other side of the plane) instead," I would have had absolutely no problem with it.

I rarely ask for a swap, but when I do, it's always for a seat that's at least comparable, and often better. As an example, a few months ago, I was on the aisle in the last row of Comfort+ on an E175 (9C maybe?), with my spouse and child across the aisle and in the row behind me in regular economy (10D and 10F for the purposes of the example). I sat in 10C, and kept a close eye out. When the person in 10C was approaching the seat and giving me the "you're in my seat" look, I stood up and asked if they would mind taking 9C. If they had said no, I would have immediately moved, but they were quite pleased to get extra legroom and the snack basket.
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Last edited by cestmoi123; Oct 4, 2017 at 8:57 am
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Old Oct 4, 2017, 9:40 am
  #1461  
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Originally Posted by cestmoi123

I rarely ask for a swap, but when I do, it's always for a seat that's at least comparable, and often better. As an example, a few months ago, I was on the aisle in the last row of Comfort+ on an E175 (9C maybe?), with my spouse and child across the aisle and in the row behind me in regular economy (10D and 10F for the purposes of the example). I sat in 10C, and kept a close eye out. When the person in 10C was approaching the seat and giving me the "you're in my seat" look, I stood up and asked if they would mind taking 9C. If they had said no, I would have immediately moved, but they were quite pleased to get extra legroom and the snack basket.
You poached a seat. You put your wants..and they are wants, not needs..over someone else. Your child was seated with a parent. There is no reason you HAD to sit together so badly.

By poaching the seat you forced the rightful owner into an uncomfortable social situation, even if you THOUGHT you were polite by asking nicely and being willing to move if they said no. They have no idea what your intentions are. Now they board and have to deal with this.

I would have booted you from my seat on principle, and you would have deserved it. Extra legroom or not.
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Old Oct 4, 2017, 10:00 am
  #1462  
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Originally Posted by cestmoi123
To each his own. I don't see politely asking someone for something that leaves you better off, but doesn't leave them worse off, as discourteous.
Oy. Just because you think it leaves them better off does not mean that they think it would leave them better off. This is what so many people don't get: It's not the asker's place to judge whether the askee should or should not accept the swap.

In my case, if the person in 21F had said "sorry, my wife is here in 21E, would you mind taking 21A (identical to 21F, on the other side of the plane) instead," I would have had absolutely no problem with it.
You might not, but when I choose my seat, if it's a daytime flight, I consider which side of the plane I want to sit on, because I like to leave the shade open and don't like it when the sun shines in on me.

I rarely ask for a swap, but when I do, it's always for a seat that's at least comparable, and often better.
In YOUR opinion.
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Old Oct 4, 2017, 10:10 am
  #1463  
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Originally Posted by Proudelitist
You poached a seat. You put your wants..and they are wants, not needs..over someone else.
I mean, you get that this argument goes both ways, right? You don't NEED to sit in the seat that is listed on your boarding pass. You WANT to.
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Old Oct 4, 2017, 10:11 am
  #1464  
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Originally Posted by PTravel
In YOUR opinion.
Obviously. But if you disagree, you're perfectly free to decline.
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Old Oct 4, 2017, 10:56 am
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Originally Posted by jrl767
imo much of this arrogance (or, dare I say, elitism) -- while completely characteristic of many FTers -- is also suboptimal
Yes. I think it's forgotten that a lot of us attain elite status flying with OPM, so I don't get the sense of superiority displayed by many on these forums.

Fortunately, there are also many who are willing to share their knowledge.

We've also been newbies, all of us. I'd rather educate others, rather than revere in their ignorance.
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Old Oct 4, 2017, 12:35 pm
  #1466  
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Originally Posted by pvn
Obviously. But if you disagree, you're perfectly free to decline.
Yes, but that misses the point. You were talking about why you think it's perfectly fine to ask if you're offering a better seat. That's your rationalization for asking. If I don't think it's a better seat, then, in my mind, there was no justification for asking, and you've interrupted me.

Personally, I don't care if someone asks PROVIDED it's before I'm settled in and have gotten out my music player and put on my headphones, which I do immediately upon taking my seat. If it's after, you've disturbed me and you'd better have a darn good reason for doing so (meaning a reason that I think is darn good).

However, I also have no problem saying, "Sorry, no," to someone who asks me a favor I don't want provide. However, a lot of people do and, at least in my experience, more times than not, the askee starts an argument or, at best, starts whining, "What am I supposed to do?" Those are interactions which I prefer to avoid at all cost.

I'm not saying you do this, and I'm sure you are gracious in accepting a, "Sorry, no," answer but, again, in my experience, that puts you in the minority.
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Old Oct 4, 2017, 12:50 pm
  #1467  
 
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Originally Posted by Proudelitist
You poached a seat. You put your wants..and they are wants, not needs..over someone else. Your child was seated with a parent. There is no reason you HAD to sit together so badly.

By poaching the seat you forced the rightful owner into an uncomfortable social situation, even if you THOUGHT you were polite by asking nicely and being willing to move if they said no. They have no idea what your intentions are. Now they board and have to deal with this.

I would have booted you from my seat on principle, and you would have deserved it. Extra legroom or not.
Again, your seat, your call. How about if, instead of Comfort+, my seat had been in First? Would you have still taken your regular economy seat, and turned down the First Class seat, on principle? How about if I offered you $100 as well?
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Old Oct 4, 2017, 12:52 pm
  #1468  
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Originally Posted by PTravel
Yes, but that misses the point. You were talking about why you think it's perfectly fine to ask if you're offering a better seat. That's your rationalization for asking. If I don't think it's a better seat, then, in my mind, there was no justification for asking, and you've interrupted me.

Personally, I don't care if someone asks PROVIDED it's before I'm settled in and have gotten out my music player and put on my headphones, which I do immediately upon taking my seat. If it's after, you've disturbed me and you'd better have a darn good reason for doing so (meaning a reason that I think is darn good).

However, I also have no problem saying, "Sorry, no," to someone who asks me a favor I don't want provide. However, a lot of people do and, at least in my experience, more times than not, the askee starts an argument or, at best, starts whining, "What am I supposed to do?" Those are interactions which I prefer to avoid at all cost.

I'm not saying you do this, and I'm sure you are gracious in accepting a, "Sorry, no," answer but, again, in my experience, that puts you in the minority.
Take em to small claims court, partner.
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Old Oct 4, 2017, 12:56 pm
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Originally Posted by PTravel
Oy. Just because you think it leaves them better off does not mean that they think it would leave them better off. This is what so many people don't get: It's not the asker's place to judge whether the askee should or should not accept the swap.
I'm not saying someone SHOULD accept the swap. Their seat, their call. I won't even ASK for a swap, though (and I do it very rarely), unless I think that most people WOULD consider themselves better off, or at very least no worse off. I think my assessments of what's a better seat aligns pretty well with most people's view (more legroom>less, farther forward>farther back, F>C+>Y, Aisle>Window>Middle), but if someone really does prefer a middle to an aisle, or regular economy to C+, then that's entirely their call, and I would never attempt to second-guess it.
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Old Oct 4, 2017, 2:02 pm
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No poaching issues until last week. Both flights connecting in CVG.

On DCA - CVG I was upgraded to 4D. When I got on the flight there Was someone in 4D. I asked him if he knew he was in row 4. He said he was confused by the overhead signage. I just sat in 3D.
On CVG - LAS I was on 12C. Someone was on my seat. She asked if I would like to sit in 11B so she could sit next to her daughters - both adults. I said no.

What is with Cincinnati?
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