Jul 14, 2015, 2:48 pm
Last edit by: BadgerBoi
The Definitive Guide to Seat Poaching
1. Don't do it.
2. Alternatively to #1: Asking politely (and not demanding) to swap for an equal or better seat is acceptable by most (but the final decision always lays with the original seat holder)...but, be warned, some FT'ers may breathe fire at you.
3. Keep in mind that Point 2 is not seat poaching.
1. Don't do it.
2. Alternatively to #1: Asking politely (and not demanding) to swap for an equal or better seat is acceptable by most (but the final decision always lays with the original seat holder)...but, be warned, some FT'ers may breathe fire at you.
3. Keep in mind that Point 2 is not seat poaching.
Seat Swapping, Seat Poaching and Seating Etiquette: The Definitive Thread
Mar 24, 2015, 7:54 am
#391
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While that may be "the rules", I can tell you that 80% of the flights I took with my kids when they were 8 16, I put together in first and sat in coach. True I was a Flying Colonel then when that really made you a DYKWIA without saying it (all "rules" were breakable, including bringing a plane back to the gate in Atlanta when I was late)
I disagree on refusing to change seats. With the few exceptions I gave, it is the right thing to do and that is the problem with America today that all you young people don't think common courtesy (or the I hope when I want to, someone will me) is gone. I was on a Delta Mexico City to Atl several years back when a couple who were on their honeymoon wanted to sit together. (They may have been nonrev). The lead FA (who was the most senior Delta FA) refused to let them change (as one of the seats they would have given up was "bad")/ A passenger got up anyway to change and she yelled at him that she said no. Every passenger in first signed a letter and sent to Delta and we got a letter back that she was reassigned non-passenger duties
I disagree on refusing to change seats. With the few exceptions I gave, it is the right thing to do and that is the problem with America today that all you young people don't think common courtesy (or the I hope when I want to, someone will me) is gone. I was on a Delta Mexico City to Atl several years back when a couple who were on their honeymoon wanted to sit together. (They may have been nonrev). The lead FA (who was the most senior Delta FA) refused to let them change (as one of the seats they would have given up was "bad")/ A passenger got up anyway to change and she yelled at him that she said no. Every passenger in first signed a letter and sent to Delta and we got a letter back that she was reassigned non-passenger duties
While not DYKWIA related, as the topic has veered to seat moving requests...
Twice within a month I was asked to switch seats, F aisle to F aisle, by a mother traveling with a young adult child who was in a different row. On both occasions, the adult child had a knee jerk reaction of, "No, it's okay, you can stay seated next to my mom." In both instances, the mothers were crushed. The first mother said she had paid for her daughter to sit in first so they could sit together. In both cases, I shamed the child into changing seats with me. The second time, it was Mother's Day and the mom's birthday. (OK, making up the last two facts.)
I once had a non-rev (yes, I now know this) ask if I could switch seats with him so that he could sit between his very young daughters in F. After he directed a game of F musical chairs, involving several passengers, mom was in A, older of the two daughters in B, me in C and the younger daughter in D. I readily agreed. What he didn't tell me was he was in coach, while we were in F. It was a short flight, so I let it go, but after take-off, the FA came up to me and let off some bat-chit crazy steam. The pilot apologized to me at the end of the flight. It seems the person asking me to change seats was a non-rev who had broken a rule. I posted about it here at the time, and someone PMed me, asked the flight number and confirmed they were non-revs. My impressions was the DL employee responsible for their flying got an earful.
Twice within a month I was asked to switch seats, F aisle to F aisle, by a mother traveling with a young adult child who was in a different row. On both occasions, the adult child had a knee jerk reaction of, "No, it's okay, you can stay seated next to my mom." In both instances, the mothers were crushed. The first mother said she had paid for her daughter to sit in first so they could sit together. In both cases, I shamed the child into changing seats with me. The second time, it was Mother's Day and the mom's birthday. (OK, making up the last two facts.)
I once had a non-rev (yes, I now know this) ask if I could switch seats with him so that he could sit between his very young daughters in F. After he directed a game of F musical chairs, involving several passengers, mom was in A, older of the two daughters in B, me in C and the younger daughter in D. I readily agreed. What he didn't tell me was he was in coach, while we were in F. It was a short flight, so I let it go, but after take-off, the FA came up to me and let off some bat-chit crazy steam. The pilot apologized to me at the end of the flight. It seems the person asking me to change seats was a non-rev who had broken a rule. I posted about it here at the time, and someone PMed me, asked the flight number and confirmed they were non-revs. My impressions was the DL employee responsible for their flying got an earful.
Just to be clear, I did not know it was a Y seat until after agreeing to the change, nor did I want to sit next to his four year old. He knew what he was doing when he put the four year old in the window seat next to me as opposed to next to his wife, where he sat his ~12 yo. This unfolded as the door was being closed for the flight, so it was easier to just take the Y seat. Immediately after takeoff, the FA was apologizing to me. She was livid, as was the pilot.
I would not have switched either. I called a DL ticket/gate agent that I have known for years, and she said the minimum age for a NRSA child to ride in FC is 8 years old. She also told me asking a paid passenger to move seats is a big no-no on DL.
I am sure the pilot and FA turned this NRSA in to DL management (I have no idea why it was not dealt with on the flight). If management found out it was true, that employee could lose all pass benefits for a year or more. I would guess it was a buddy pass rider (which the employee is still responsible for).
I've done buddy passes before - NEVER AGAIN!
I am sure the pilot and FA turned this NRSA in to DL management (I have no idea why it was not dealt with on the flight). If management found out it was true, that employee could lose all pass benefits for a year or more. I would guess it was a buddy pass rider (which the employee is still responsible for).
I've done buddy passes before - NEVER AGAIN!
It was a buddy pass rider. Both the FA and the person who reached out to me via FT indicated that. The person who reached out via FT knew something about the passenger/situation that I had not posted, and asked to verify we were talking about the same passengers, which indicated to me the situation was dealt with. It was a short flight, we needed to take off and I wasn't complaining, so it wasn't dealt with at the time, but the FA and, later, the pilot, were livid. Had it not been for them, I would have just let it pass and known to never switch seats without clarity again.
Also, the younger daughter may have been older than four, but there is no way she was eight.
Also, the younger daughter may have been older than four, but there is no way she was eight.
I am sure the person who provided the buddy pass was in HUGE trouble. Not only are they forbidden from asking to switch seats with any passenger, this guy had a paid passenger leave first for coach. I am sure the employee who provided the passes had a lot more than just a hand slap. BTW, I am sure the pilot and the FA also filed complaints. It's a big no-no.
However, it sounds like part of the problem was the GA making a mistake with the seat assignments. Given that nonrev kids under 8 cannot sit in FC/BE on DL and given that kids under 15 must have an adult in the same cabin or pay the UM fee, that GA should have put at least the small child and one parent in coach. If there weren't two open seats in coach, they should have been forced to wait for space on the next flight. Assigning three of the party to FC was just wrong.
Once on a TATL flight with 2-2-2 seating in BE I was harassed by nonrevs to change seats. The assignments were their 15 year old/ me//aisle//father/mother and I refused to switch since they had taken over my seat when I was in the lavatory. Unfortunately the purser chimed in to urge me to switch seats and demanded to know why I refused to move for them.
Last edited by MSPeconomist; Mar 24, 2015 at 8:15 am
Mar 24, 2015, 8:19 am
#392
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That's about as far from poaching as it's possible to get.
First, you were not preemptively attempting to occupy her seat - you vacated the seat as she approached.
Second, if anybody says that to me, I'm taking the window seat. I like to look out, and prefer the aisle seat only because it's convenient to get in and out of it. If the person in the aisle seat is going to be getting up frequently, it is the easiest thing in the for me to coordinate my movements so I can get up when my seatmate is up.
First, you were not preemptively attempting to occupy her seat - you vacated the seat as she approached.
Second, if anybody says that to me, I'm taking the window seat. I like to look out, and prefer the aisle seat only because it's convenient to get in and out of it. If the person in the aisle seat is going to be getting up frequently, it is the easiest thing in the for me to coordinate my movements so I can get up when my seatmate is up.
A further problem is that in the meantime you've either been sitting on the pillow and blanket or you've put these items on the floor. On TATL/TPAC flights, I want a pristine pillow and blanket, not ones that have already been used by a stranger, even if only for a few minutes. Putting my pillow and blanket on the floor should be my choice, not something that someone else does before I board.
Mar 24, 2015, 8:46 am
#393
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IMO instead of just losing nonrev privileges, someone should be fired over this fiasco. It's good that the FA and pilot took the side of the paying revenue passenger in FC.
However, it sounds like part of the problem was the GA making a mistake with the seat assignments. Given that nonrev kids under 8 cannot sit in FC/BE on DL and given that kids under 15 must have an adult in the same cabin or pay the UM fee, that GA should have put at least the small child and one parent in coach. If there weren't two open seats in coach, they should have been forced to wait for space on the next flight. Assigning three of the party to FC was just wrong.
Once on a TATL flight with 2-2-2 seating in BE I was harassed by nonrevs to change seats. The assignments were their 15 year old/ me//aisle//father/mother and I refused to switch since they had taken over my seat when I was in the lavatory. Unfortunately the purser chimed in to urge me to switch seats and demanded to know why I refused to move for them.
However, it sounds like part of the problem was the GA making a mistake with the seat assignments. Given that nonrev kids under 8 cannot sit in FC/BE on DL and given that kids under 15 must have an adult in the same cabin or pay the UM fee, that GA should have put at least the small child and one parent in coach. If there weren't two open seats in coach, they should have been forced to wait for space on the next flight. Assigning three of the party to FC was just wrong.
Once on a TATL flight with 2-2-2 seating in BE I was harassed by nonrevs to change seats. The assignments were their 15 year old/ me//aisle//father/mother and I refused to switch since they had taken over my seat when I was in the lavatory. Unfortunately the purser chimed in to urge me to switch seats and demanded to know why I refused to move for them.
Mar 24, 2015, 8:58 am
#394
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I disagree. Taking the seat temporarily is poaching, even if you offer to give it back. This makes it more difficult for the person to refuse to swap.
A further problem is that in the meantime you've either been sitting on the pillow and blanket or you've put these items on the floor. On TATL/TPAC flights, I want a pristine pillow and blanket, not ones that have already been used by a stranger, even if only for a few minutes. Putting my pillow and blanket on the floor should be my choice, not something that someone else does before I board.
A further problem is that in the meantime you've either been sitting on the pillow and blanket or you've put these items on the floor. On TATL/TPAC flights, I want a pristine pillow and blanket, not ones that have already been used by a stranger, even if only for a few minutes. Putting my pillow and blanket on the floor should be my choice, not something that someone else does before I board.
Same with people that grab blankets and pillows out of the bin walking back to coach without asking, I consider that poaching as well. If I know I will want my blanket and pillow during the flight I hold them on my lap now until boarding is complete. I used to put them in the bin until I needed them but had a couple occasions where people would be walking to coach and see them in the bin and think they were up for grabs. But I've also seen people boarding and taking them off first class seats and head back to coach as well
Mar 24, 2015, 9:04 am
#395
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Once on a TATL flight with 2-2-2 seating in BE I was harassed by nonrevs to change seats. The assignments were their 15 year old/ me//aisle//father/mother and I refused to switch since they had taken over my seat when I was in the lavatory. Unfortunately the purser chimed in to urge me to switch seats and demanded to know why I refused to move for them.
I am beyond sick of people in general asking to switch. Heres a thought book seats together when you book the flight. If you didnt select seats, or these are last minute tickets deal with it. I fly with family, friends, spouses, etc all the time and sometimes we are split up by a seat, sometimes by up to 30 rows. Guess what? We survive somehow. TPAC from ATL it is not the end of the world if I have to wait 16 hours to sit next to them. Its a long flight get up and say hi. 97% of my flights I have headphones on watching a movie or listening to music.
I have a zero tolerance for people asking me. (Unless someone says I will give you cash, then I am running out of my seat as fast as possible)
I once had a flight where the wife/husband were split up. They TOLD me to move to his middle seat from my aisle seat. I said no, he said we are traveling together, I pointed across to the opposite aisle seat and said so are we. They started verbally threatening me (FA heard and did nothing). The husband threatened to beat me up, and the wife threatened to force vomit on me during the flight as an "accident" (they weren't smart since they screamed it so loud 2 gates over on another plane could hear). I told them whichever one wants to either strike or vomit on me have fun because you will be arrested upon landing for battery, and I will make sure to show up to every court proceeding to testify. They were about to give up, when the person behind me moved for the cry babies. I was told "I was lucky" by them. I assume they were drunk already, since they were throwing them back like crazy on the flight. First class flight crew on that flight
Mar 24, 2015, 9:29 am
#396
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My response to the purser would have been let me get your first and last name so when I write a note telling me you demanded as a paying customer to switch with Non Revs your superiors know who to reprimand.
I am beyond sick of people in general asking to switch. Heres a thought book seats together when you book the flight. If you didnt select seats, or these are last minute tickets deal with it. I fly with family, friends, spouses, etc all the time and sometimes we are split up by a seat, sometimes by up to 30 rows. Guess what? We survive somehow. TPAC from ATL it is not the end of the world if I have to wait 16 hours to sit next to them. Its a long flight get up and say hi. 97% of my flights I have headphones on watching a movie or listening to music.
I have a zero tolerance for people asking me. (Unless someone says I will give you cash, then I am running out of my seat as fast as possible)
I once had a flight where the wife/husband were split up. They TOLD me to move to his middle seat from my aisle seat. I said no, he said we are traveling together, I pointed across to the opposite aisle seat and said so are we. They started verbally threatening me (FA heard and did nothing). The husband threatened to beat me up, and the wife threatened to force vomit on me during the flight as an "accident" (they weren't smart since they screamed it so loud 2 gates over on another plane could hear). I told them whichever one wants to either strike or vomit on me have fun because you will be arrested upon landing for battery, and I will make sure to show up to every court proceeding to testify. They were about to give up, when the person behind me moved for the cry babies. I was told "I was lucky" by them. I assume they were drunk already, since they were throwing them back like crazy on the flight. First class flight crew on that flight
I am beyond sick of people in general asking to switch. Heres a thought book seats together when you book the flight. If you didnt select seats, or these are last minute tickets deal with it. I fly with family, friends, spouses, etc all the time and sometimes we are split up by a seat, sometimes by up to 30 rows. Guess what? We survive somehow. TPAC from ATL it is not the end of the world if I have to wait 16 hours to sit next to them. Its a long flight get up and say hi. 97% of my flights I have headphones on watching a movie or listening to music.
I have a zero tolerance for people asking me. (Unless someone says I will give you cash, then I am running out of my seat as fast as possible)
I once had a flight where the wife/husband were split up. They TOLD me to move to his middle seat from my aisle seat. I said no, he said we are traveling together, I pointed across to the opposite aisle seat and said so are we. They started verbally threatening me (FA heard and did nothing). The husband threatened to beat me up, and the wife threatened to force vomit on me during the flight as an "accident" (they weren't smart since they screamed it so loud 2 gates over on another plane could hear). I told them whichever one wants to either strike or vomit on me have fun because you will be arrested upon landing for battery, and I will make sure to show up to every court proceeding to testify. They were about to give up, when the person behind me moved for the cry babies. I was told "I was lucky" by them. I assume they were drunk already, since they were throwing them back like crazy on the flight. First class flight crew on that flight
I don't understand why people make a big of deal of having to sit together during a flight anyway. I've been on a couple 3+ hour flights where families made a big deal of sitting together and playing musical chairs and then one or both would sleep the majority of the flight or be using the IFE. It's not like they are talking the majority of the flight anyway.
Mar 24, 2015, 9:58 am
#397
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Personally I think it would be ok to ask to switch with passengers if it's in the same cabin if you're a non-rev. I don't work for an airline (yet..
) but I don't find it unreasonable to ask. If they can be respectful and accept that the person has the right to say no, I don't see it as an issue. I can accommodate requests as long as they aren't unreasonable. Obviously in that case the non-rev was beyond wrong to have the OP switch from F to Y.OK. I am going to change my opinion. I earlier said that asking for a seat swap does not automatically make you a DYKWIA. But, if a pax [B]expects[B] the seat swap request to be automatically granted because "it is the right think to do," then that pax is DYKWIA due to the expectation that their request should be granted because their seating preference is somehow more important than mine.
This is a prime example of what is wrong with people and seat assignments... Don't take something that isn't yours. He could have asked after the plane was mostly boarded where there was room and time to move if he really wanted the aisle seat.
Boarding in MCO earlier this week. As usual, I'm running late and most of the flight has boarded by the time I get to the gate. It appears that GA is clearing some standbys as there are four people in the general boarding lane exchanging what I assume are seat request slips for BPs at the scanner.
As I approach the gate, another guy walks into the SP lane. Second GA (not the one dealing with SBs), waves him forward and in front of the general boarding people to scan his BP. Dude in the general line yells, "HEY! THERE'S A LINE HERE, BUDDY!"
SP man waves his iPhone at yelling man and essentially taunts, "Sky Priority...", to which yelling man shoves his way around the lady talking to GA and again yells, "I'VE GOT PRIORITY, TOO, BUDDY."
As I approach the gate, another guy walks into the SP lane. Second GA (not the one dealing with SBs), waves him forward and in front of the general boarding people to scan his BP. Dude in the general line yells, "HEY! THERE'S A LINE HERE, BUDDY!"
SP man waves his iPhone at yelling man and essentially taunts, "Sky Priority...", to which yelling man shoves his way around the lady talking to GA and again yells, "I'VE GOT PRIORITY, TOO, BUDDY."
Would you consider me to be a poacher? On a domestic flight I had a window seat but sat down on the aisle. When the rightful occupant arrived, I stood up, explained to her that I am at risk for DVT and my doctor told me that I will have to walk around several times during the flight.
I said that I would respect her decision as to which seat she prefers but would be forced to bother her several times to get in and out of my seat.
She took the window seat.
I said that I would respect her decision as to which seat she prefers but would be forced to bother her several times to get in and out of my seat.
She took the window seat.
Mar 24, 2015, 10:01 am
#398
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While IANAL (although I play one on FT), I believe that the threat alone could be considered assault.
Mike
Mike
Mar 24, 2015, 10:13 am
#399
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This is one of those frivolous seat swap requests that's a "want", not a "need". They want to sit next to each other three across, even though separated by the aisle. Not need for a parent to sit next to a child, in which case they could have traded seats among themselves. Shame on the purser. Did you give in?
Later in the flight there was some discussion that I couldn't avoid overhearing about nonrevs getting last choice of meals, which is how I know for certain that the three of them were nonrevs. I suspect that if I had moved, the FAs would have assumed that I was a nonrev and treated me accordingly.
If I had known then what I know now about nonrevs being forbidden from bothering revenue passengers with seat change requests, I would have reported both the behavior of the three nonrevs and the purser for the incident.
Mar 24, 2015, 12:01 pm
#400
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Would you consider me to be a poacher? On a domestic flight I had a window seat but sat down on the aisle. When the rightful occupant arrived, I stood up, explained to her that I am at risk for DVT and my doctor told me that I will have to walk around several times during the flight.
I said that I would respect her decision as to which seat she prefers but would be forced to bother her several times to get in and out of my seat.
She took the window seat.
I said that I would respect her decision as to which seat she prefers but would be forced to bother her several times to get in and out of my seat.
She took the window seat.
If you are at higher risk for DVT why did you not select an aisle seat? Why not make this condition known to the GA? If necessary, why not arrive at the gate early to make it more likely the GA could accommodate you?
BTW - Do you check the weather before boarding to make sure there is a low likelihood of turbulence and that the seat belt sign will be turned off during your walks? Do you advise the FAs that you will be walking even if the seat belt sign is on due to your condition?
Mar 24, 2015, 1:10 pm
#401
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Would you consider me to be a poacher? On a domestic flight I had a window seat but sat down on the aisle. When the rightful occupant arrived, I stood up, explained to her that I am at risk for DVT and my doctor told me that I will have to walk around several times during the flight.
I said that I would respect her decision as to which seat she prefers but would be forced to bother her several times to get in and out of my seat.
She took the window seat.
Mar 24, 2015, 2:47 pm
#402
Join Date: Jun 2014
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I know I'm going to make a silly question...
How do you recognize a non-rev?!?
How do you recognize a non-rev?!?
Mar 24, 2015, 3:11 pm
#403
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Sometimes you can clearly see their BP which says NRSA.
Often they chat like long lost buddies with all the FAs.
Some even go into the galley area and chat with them.
What they discuss with FAs - jobs, schedules, etc, etc makes it very obvious.
I had one NRSA struggle and had to touch me heavily on the shoulder - and she said - I hope you dont sue the company because of me with a big grin on her face.
I have even had an FA say to another FA "Wow there are a lot of non-revs on the flight today".
Their demeanour around the GA is noticeable.
etc
Mar 24, 2015, 3:51 pm
#404
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If someone would have threatened to beat me up or vomit on me, I think I would demand a red coat or maybe even airport police come on board and remove them.
I don't understand why people make a big of deal of having to sit together during a flight anyway. I've been on a couple 3+ hour flights where families made a big deal of sitting together and playing musical chairs and then one or both would sleep the majority of the flight or be using the IFE. It's not like they are talking the majority of the flight anyway.
I don't understand why people make a big of deal of having to sit together during a flight anyway. I've been on a couple 3+ hour flights where families made a big deal of sitting together and playing musical chairs and then one or both would sleep the majority of the flight or be using the IFE. It's not like they are talking the majority of the flight anyway.
My luck I would get dragged off the last flight of the day to be interviewed. They probably wouldn't charge them etc. sometimes people like that just need to think they won.
Mar 24, 2015, 7:09 pm
#405
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