Need help with award routing - how should this price?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: BOSish
Programs: DL PM / MM, Nat'l EE
Posts: 449
Need help with award routing - how should this price?
Just off the phone with the award desk trying to use award miles at low levels.. (the time I've spent to do this is worth more than the ticket I could have just purchased at this point.) I've plotted out an itinerary that I think should price out at 105k miles (70k base economy there, partial 140k base business back). This is within MPM for a ticket to Jakarta and back. What do you think?
Departure:
BOS-LGA Delta Coach (15 hr layover)
JFK-NRT Delta Coach (8 hr layover)
HND-CGK Garuda Coach (2 days in Jakarta)
Return:
CGK-BKK Garuda Coach (multi-night stopover)
BKK-ICN Korean Business (12 hr layover)
ICN-JFK Korean Business (14 hr layover)
LGA-BOS Delta Coach
Delta was coming back trying to price this a 150k plus. I tried to get an explanation as to where I was going wrong, but they just said I have two stopovers. Help me understand where I'm going wrong here
Departure:
BOS-LGA Delta Coach (15 hr layover)
JFK-NRT Delta Coach (8 hr layover)
HND-CGK Garuda Coach (2 days in Jakarta)
Return:
CGK-BKK Garuda Coach (multi-night stopover)
BKK-ICN Korean Business (12 hr layover)
ICN-JFK Korean Business (14 hr layover)
LGA-BOS Delta Coach
Delta was coming back trying to price this a 150k plus. I tried to get an explanation as to where I was going wrong, but they just said I have two stopovers. Help me understand where I'm going wrong here
#2
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: Delta DM, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,492
Just off the phone with the award desk trying to use award miles at low levels.. (the time I've spent to do this is worth more than the ticket I could have just purchased at this point.) I've plotted out an itinerary that I think should price out at 105k miles (70k base economy there, partial 140k base business back). This is within MPM for a ticket to Jakarta and back. What do you think?
Departure:
BOS-LGA Delta Coach (15 hr layover)
JFK-NRT Delta Coach (8 hr layover)
HND-CGK Garuda Coach (2 days in Jakarta)
Return:
CGK-BKK Garuda Coach (multi-night stopover)
BKK-ICN Korean Business (12 hr layover)
ICN-JFK Korean Business (14 hr layover)
LGA-BOS Delta Coach
Delta was coming back trying to price this a 150k plus. I tried to get an explanation as to where I was going wrong, but they just said I have two stopovers. Help me understand where I'm going wrong here
Departure:
BOS-LGA Delta Coach (15 hr layover)
JFK-NRT Delta Coach (8 hr layover)
HND-CGK Garuda Coach (2 days in Jakarta)
Return:
CGK-BKK Garuda Coach (multi-night stopover)
BKK-ICN Korean Business (12 hr layover)
ICN-JFK Korean Business (14 hr layover)
LGA-BOS Delta Coach
Delta was coming back trying to price this a 150k plus. I tried to get an explanation as to where I was going wrong, but they just said I have two stopovers. Help me understand where I'm going wrong here
If that solves the problem it would be more efficient to just buy the shuttle flights or drive from Boston and park at JFK for your trip.
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
(Not applicable to travel between Canada and Puerto Rico/Virgin Islands) A stopover will occur when a passenger arrives at an intermediate point and is not scheduled to depart within 24 hours of arrival.
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
Departure:
BOS-LGA Delta Coach (15 hr layover)
JFK-NRT Delta Coach (8 hr layover)
HND-CGK Garuda Coach (2 days in Jakarta)
Return:
CGK-BKK Garuda Coach (multi-night stopover)
BKK-ICN Korean Business (12 hr layover)
ICN-JFK Korean Business (14 hr layover)
LGA-BOS Delta Coach
Here are the DL-involved routings KE BOS-CGK on a common economy fare from ExpertFlyer:
49. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
50. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-JKT
51. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
52. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
53. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-JKT
54. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
55. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
56. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-JKT
57. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
#7
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Programs: AA Plat, SPG/Marriot Gold, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Expl
Posts: 2,363
Why on KE? The OP is flying DL and GA and not via ICN.
It seems you have reasoned that you have a CGK destination and BKK stopover. For that to price as a single award I believe you need a through fare (not a constructed fare) on KE BOS-CGK that allows your proposed routing.
Here are the DL-involved routings KE BOS-CGK on a common economy fare from ExpertFlyer:
49. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
50. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-JKT
51. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
52. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
53. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-JKT
54. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
55. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
56. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-JKT
57. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
Here are the DL-involved routings KE BOS-CGK on a common economy fare from ExpertFlyer:
49. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
50. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-JKT
51. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
52. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
53. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-JKT
54. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
55. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
56. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-JKT
57. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
#8
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,983
It should price at 110k (40k economy one-way + 70k business the other way), assuming all DL segments are in low. Since OP has a stopover, it will have to be manually priced by a competent agent/supervisor.
#9
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,204
It seems you have reasoned that you have a CGK destination and BKK stopover. For that to price as a single award I believe you need a through fare (not a constructed fare) on KE BOS-CGK that allows your proposed routing.
Here are the DL-involved routings KE BOS-CGK on a common economy fare from ExpertFlyer:
49. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
50. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-JKT
51. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
52. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
53. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-JKT
54. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
55. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
56. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-JKT
57. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
Here are the DL-involved routings KE BOS-CGK on a common economy fare from ExpertFlyer:
49. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
50. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-JKT
51. BOS-DL-ATL-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
52. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
53. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-JKT
54. BOS-DL-DFW-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
55. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-HKG-CI-JKT
56. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-JKT
57. BOS-DL/US-NYC-SEL-SIN-GA-JKT
#10
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,363
From the SkyMiles terms:
One stopover is allowed per roundtrip Award Ticket under certain circumstances. A stopover is defined as a stay of more than 4 hours between domestic flights and more than 24 hours between domestic and international or all international flights. The destination city is not considered a stopover. A stopover is allowed, provided there are no more than two connections between the origin and destination including any connections that are made while traveling to/from the stopover point. The stopover city must be located on a valid routing.
#11
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,204
The CoC stopover definition does not control what tickets/fares DL is required to offer.
From the SkyMiles terms:
http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...ons.html#award
From the SkyMiles terms:
http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...ons.html#award
I would suggest OP to book it as open-jaw (go to CGR, return from BKK, three flights either way). Then they can't possibly deny that. Before the res systems downgrade this would have priced out just fine as RT, even though it strictly doesn't meet the award routing rules, as on the return leg there are four and not three flights (can have four w/o stopover, but w/ stopover only three).
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: BOSish
Programs: DL PM / MM, Nat'l EE
Posts: 449
By this exact definition, the return trip is three connections (four flights), and thus no stopover in BKK. Normally it's been fine for three connections (four flights) with stopover one-way, but now that it's manually done so may be no longer the case - if the agents are paying attention.
I would suggest OP to book it as open-jaw (go to CGR, return from BKK, three flights either way). Then they can't possibly deny that. Before the res systems downgrade this would have priced out just fine as RT, even though it strictly doesn't meet the award routing rules, as on the return leg there are four and not three flights (can have four w/o stopover, but w/ stopover only three).
I would suggest OP to book it as open-jaw (go to CGR, return from BKK, three flights either way). Then they can't possibly deny that. Before the res systems downgrade this would have priced out just fine as RT, even though it strictly doesn't meet the award routing rules, as on the return leg there are four and not three flights (can have four w/o stopover, but w/ stopover only three).
#13
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,363
Or just ex the LGA->BOS leg and take the train. Or hitch-hike :-)
Last edited by exwannabe; Dec 16, 2014 at 5:57 pm
#14
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,204
With any other airline (I know from experience UA, AA, JL) award flights can be easily booked in minutes, if not online then by phone. Only with DL does it take multiple layers of escalation, arguing with clueless and obviously untrained agents, and thus hours upon hours for simple itineraries (such as yours is).
Don't give up though. Your itin is really fine and until the latest further massive dumbification of the DulltaMatic it would have been no problem. Only if you have to (you don't want to keep HUAC'ing and value your time more than the short connecting flight price), take out the CGR-BKK or the last LGA-BOS (whichever is cheaper separately), as then the Dullta agents will have no argment whatsoever why they are not pricing it out right.