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stopover/open jaw no more on US-Europe redemption?

stopover/open jaw no more on US-Europe redemption?

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Old Dec 22, 14, 8:56 am   -   Wikipost
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Last edit by: fti
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We now know the facts:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...miles2015.html

Official update from Delta CORP folks to me (Delta Points):

“There are no changes to stopovers. A recent change in IT at Delta.com discontinued the ability to book intl. stopovers online. You could still book them via reservations agents. We [Delta] are working with the res agents (who handle the bulk of the bookings already) to ensure they are properly assisting customers who might.” – DELTA CORP

Also see unconfirmed brand new FTer - DLMiddleSeat post #38

Hello, I am a DL employee and was formerly in the Skymiles department before moving to a new position. I can tell you I still keep tabs on Skymiles and there is a memo that says award stopovers are still allowed but there was a glitch when they filed the fares. You have to call in to get it ticketed manually though. If the CSR say not possible refer them to the res policy update on the dlnet homepage.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 1:01 pm
  #1  
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No more stopover/open jaw on US-Europe redemption?

I used to be able to build a stopover or an open jaw into the European redemption.

For example, for 125,000 miles, I could fly from MSP to CDG, then from CDG to PRG/VIE/LHR/FCO, finally come back to MSP from those places, all in business.

Matter of fact, I just priced one out like that last week.

Now I can't seem to replicate it. It keeps asking at least 155k. Called Delta and of course they said it was correct.

The availability is all there, segment by segment.

What did I miss?

Edit: open jaw seems to be fine. The speculation about eliminating stopover with the upcoming one way capability is probably onto something. But that's only supposed to be 1/1/2015, right?

Last edited by lancexfang; Oct 27, 14 at 2:27 pm
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Old Oct 27, 14, 1:20 pm
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Need lots more info, especially exact dates/cities. But with the cities you mentioned I am pretty sure it wouldn't work. No way to get to PRG, VIE, LHR and FCO all for 125,000 miles. Even if you changed the order it wouldn't work.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 1:35 pm
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I played around a bit and wasn't getting it to work either.

My example was in Y.

1/11 DL1734 MSP-DTW
1/11 AF377 DTW-CDG

1/14 AF1812 CDG-LIN

1/19 DL419 MXP-JFK
1/19 DL838 JFK-MSP

All were available in low and when pieced together priced at 90,000 miles vs 60,000. I assumed (can't check) that MXP/LIN are considered co-terminals in Delta's world and that CDG would be a valid stopover point between MSP and MXP.

I was able to get the open-jaw to work at 60,000 by dropping the AF segment on 11/14.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 1:38 pm
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TTT, if MXP and LIN are co-terminals, your example is not a stopover + open jaw, it's a double stopover, isn't it?

At any rate, I'm not able to get it to price out with both, either. A stopover OR an open jaw works fine, but not both.

Last edited by javabytes; Oct 27, 14 at 1:46 pm
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Old Oct 27, 14, 1:46 pm
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Originally Posted by fti View Post
Need lots more info, especially exact dates/cities. But with the cities you mentioned I am pretty sure it wouldn't work. No way to get to PRG, VIE, LHR and FCO all for 125,000 miles. Even if you changed the order it wouldn't work.
I did it for FCO last year. MSP-Toronto-FCO (destination) - CDG (stopover)-LHR-MSP, all in for 100,000 miles, for 3 people.

For 2015, you can look at MSP->CDG on 4/3, and CDG->MSP on 4/16. it will price at 125k. But once you add any other places (in between CDG and the other european cities, there are tons of availability), no matter how hard I tried, I was getting at least 155k.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 1:49 pm
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Correct me if I'm wrong... I thought the official rule was that you could have a stopover OR an open jaw... and it was merely in practice that we were always able to do both? If so, perhaps this has been patched.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 1:51 pm
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Originally Posted by fti View Post
Need lots more info, especially exact dates/cities. But with the cities you mentioned I am pretty sure it wouldn't work. No way to get to PRG, VIE, LHR and FCO all for 125,000 miles. Even if you changed the order it wouldn't work.
Apologies. I didn't mean all of them. Just one of them. For example, MSP-CDG-VIE-MSP (via CDG).
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Old Oct 27, 14, 1:57 pm
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Originally Posted by javabytes View Post
TTT, if MXP and LIN are co-terminals, your example is not a stopover + open jaw, it's a double stopover, isn't it?
I always get confused with this but I was thinking Paris - stopover, Milan - destination. You're right - I forgot the open-jaw point. But still concerning that a stopover didn't price as expected.

What route did you try with a stopover and open-jaw?

I just tried the following:
1/11 DL1734 MSP-DTW
1/11 AF377 DTW-CDG

1/14 AF1812 CDG-LIN

1/16 AZ108 FCO-AMS
1/16 DL163 AMS-MSP

It priced out at 90,000 as well.

Originally Posted by javabytes View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong... I thought the official rule was that you could have a stopover OR an open jaw... and it was merely in practice that we were always able to do both? If so, perhaps this has been patched.
That was always my understanding as well. It was an OR but for whatever reason AND worked in practice.

Here are the official rules from Delta:
Open Jaw
Open jaw travel is permitted for Award Travel. To be eligible, the mileage between the open jaw points must be less than or equal to the total mileage flown between any other trip in the itinerary (origin to destination). A double open jaw is not permitted.
Stopovers
One stopover is allowed per roundtrip Award Ticket under certain circumstances. A stopover is defined as a stay of more than 4 hours between domestic flights and more than 24 hours between domestic and international or all international flights. The destination city is not considered a stopover. A stopover is allowed, provided there are no more than two connections between the origin and destination including any connections that are made while traveling to/from the stopover point. The stopover city must be located on a valid routing.
http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...onditions.html

They are separate items and don't reference you can have one or the other. I wonder if/when this has changed as I really do remember the OR being there.

Last edited by TTT; Oct 27, 14 at 2:22 pm
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Old Oct 27, 14, 2:04 pm
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Originally Posted by javabytes View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong... I thought the official rule was that you could have a stopover OR an open jaw... and it was merely in practice that we were always able to do both? If so, perhaps this has been patched.
So this is what I tried to price out
4/3 MSP/CDG DL171
4/8 CDG/PRG AF5032
4/16 PRG/CDG AF5037
4/16 CDG/MSP DL170

The result was 175k. It'a as if they are adding the miles for the transatlantic portion and the intra-Europe part. What did I do wrong? There is only 1 stopover here at CDG, and no open jaw, correct?

I know they are available, as MSP/CDG is pricing at 125k and CDG/PRG is pricing at 50k
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Old Oct 27, 14, 2:19 pm
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I just did the following as a test

2/11 MSP - PRG DL160/KL1355 2/18 PRG-MSP AF1737/DL170 Price 125000 Miles

I then did 2/11 MSP-PRG 2/14 PRG - CDG AF1737 2/18 CDG-MSP DL170 Price 175000 Miles

To me that should 125000 so why is it adding 50000 ?

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/4504/TVnTGu.png

http://imageshack.com/a/img911/9348/c8cBJK.png

Is this a 2015 program enhancement?

Last edited by AndySAV; Oct 27, 14 at 2:32 pm
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Old Oct 27, 14, 2:21 pm
  #11  
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Originally Posted by AndySAV View Post
I just did the following as a test

2/11 MSP - PRG DL160/KL1355 21/8 PRG-MSP AF1737/DL170 Price 125000 Miles

I then did 2/11 MSP-PRG 2/14 PRG - CDG AF1737 2/18 CDG-MSP DL170 Price 175000 Miles

To me that should 125000 so why is it adding 50000 ?
Seems like stopovers are causing a problem with pricing.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 2:22 pm
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AA generally* eliminated the stopover opportunity on round-trip awards when it started to allow 1/2-price one-way awards in May '09. I'm not surprised if that should be Delta's path - but Delta could wait until 1/1/2015, and announce it prominently.

* AA continued to allow a stopover on international redemptions at the North American gateway city but even that was eliminated in the rule update of April '14, along with distance-based awards.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 2:25 pm
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
AA generally* eliminated the stopover opportunity on round-trip awards when it started to allow 1/2-price one-way awards in May '09. I'm not surprised if that should be Delta's path - but Delta could wait until 1/1/2015, and announce it prominently.

* AA continued to allow a stopover on international redemptions at the North American gateway city but even that was eliminated in the rule update of April '14, along with distance-based awards.
That makes sense and is something that was suspected with one-way pricing. Of course, it would be nice to have an announcement of some sort if that is what is happening here.

What does UA do in this situation? Do they allow stopovers?
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Old Oct 27, 14, 2:41 pm
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Originally Posted by TTT View Post
That makes sense and is something that was suspected with one-way pricing. Of course, it would be nice to have an announcement of some sort if that is what is happening here.

What does UA do in this situation? Do they allow stopovers?
Yes, UA does allow some -- for no additional mileage price -- on roundtrip awards. They allowed that even after they shifted to one-way pricing of award travel.

AA allowed free stopovers at North American international gateway cities (on one-way or roundtrips, in one or both directions) until earlier this year.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 3:12 pm
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Originally Posted by TTT View Post
I always get confused with this but I was thinking Paris - stopover, Milan - destination. You're right - I forgot the open-jaw point. But still concerning that a stopover didn't price as expected.

What route did you try with a stopover and open-jaw?
Actually you're right, it was me who was confused... you had a stopover and destination, not a double stopover. Mondays, amirite?

I tried ORD-CDG (stop) FRA (OJ) DUS-ORD and it didn't work.
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