Deadtail

The OP really does do a good job of displaying the awfulness than resides in some of the people we are required to share space with.

Powers106

Or the frustration of looking at your plane sitting there while there is no effort made to get you onto it. (Wasn't there a thread about Delta and a Porsche in Atlanta? so they do make an effort at times, I would have been happy just to run to the gate).

On that same night in Japan they assured the transfer of a large group headed to Taipei. As a reference, they transferred all those people to the plane and the departure time was 18h40 per flight aware = 10 minutes after scheduled departure and 5 minutes ahead of the scheduled BKK flight~! They could have gotten us on that plane.

...But since they had pre-printed all of our boarding passes for ANA to Bangkok, they had no desire to do it. I understand this decision is made "higher up" and it is not the front line people, but a red coat and manager (both present) could have potentially triggered something but they were not the "go get 'em" types, or at least not empowered.

I think we unexpectedly arrived a bit early (originally expected at 19h10 and this is the data they must have been using), maybe due to the runway issue highlighted above, and then they had already defaulted to Plan B for our flight. This is probably convenient (and admittedly 6 hours including going through customs and a 1.15 hour bus ride is better than a 24 hour delay!) when you are 2 hours late, but when you actually arrive in time to make your flight (okay, I think a 10-minute delay would have been needed*) it is really depressing to see complete inaction and indifference. You are tired after the previous flight(s) and then Delta makes no effort to get you onto your flight (all while reassuring the Taipei passengers that they will make it).

Something about the decision-making process is wrong here, they jumped the gun on sending us to ANA, maybe not tracking real-time flight arrival estimates, and we paid the price in terms of 6 hours because they couldn't flex backwards to a better option for the passengers. While they didn't need to flex back for Taipei as the decision had been made to hold it. Somehow the communication that we could potentially arrive in time dropped (or somewhere at HQ in Japan and they saved face by not changing the decision when the newer data came in).

Maybe times are changing and Delta can no longer be counted on to help make the transfers as in the past. Good for them to get us on an ANA flight rather than 24 hour delay, but I sense that since that option existed and a decision had been made hours earlier is why they didn't make an effort for us as it must have taken time to get all those bookings and printed boarding passes set up etc. Suddenly giving no flexibility at all.

Maybe that is low-cost for you as a tourist, but for a full day of business meetings, there is a big difference in arriving at 11:30pm (according to flight aware they arrived at 11:20pm - 10 minutes early - oh those 10 minutes) and arriving at 5am after having to stay awake for transferring airports etc. The way Delta offers $200-500 vouchers in the USA for voluntary flight change on over-bookings, I could see where $1,000 forced change not due to weather rather Delta operational issues would be fair on a $5,000 ticket, but I don't really expect they'll hand over anywhere near that, I've had enough experiences of lost luggage, bad IFE, delayed baggage delivery, etc. where I've been given some miles and understand how low the compensation levels are.

You might not believe it but I actually very polite and a great seat mate on the plane! I have been with Delta/NW for about 30 years and overall have had great experiences, admittedly better with NW but that could also be nostalgia talking. I've had good luck but the usual share of mishaps, misplacements, weather, etc. but excuse me if this is the first time I've seen complete indifference from Delta for one set of passengers and great efforts for another set.

Anyway...


*only 10 minutes really as we were walking to customs by 18h35 and our bags were already on the carrousel by 19h00 (in fact mine already pulled off and next to it) and we were on the bus at 19h15 just outside the doors after exchanging voucher for the bus ticket.

Traveller

I am so confused. If your connection left at 18:45 and your bags were on the carousel by 19:00, how would a 10 minute delay have helped you?

Deadtail

There's more to clearing a flight, especially an international flight, than getting the passengers on board.

I like how you blamed the pilots though. It was a nice touch.

Powers106

If they could locate the bags and get them downloaded to customs by 19h00 and sitting next to the carrousel, there shouldn't be an issue to locate them and transfer them to the other Delta plane by 18h55. They must have done it or the Taipei flight, and they departed 18h40.

TheMadBrewer

I think actually seeing the plane and not being able to get to increases the frustration and causes one to do things that to others seem beyond the pale. See here

I reached my breaking point 30 or so years ago at Stapleton -- we sat just off the gate for about 30-45 because our gate was occupied. When we finally deplaned it turns out the flight we were waiting to leave was my connecting flight That caused me an overnight at the airport and I swore I'd never connect in Denver again. Took my next flight on Republic -- and the rest is history

Powers106

Did you read the part where they got the Taipei passengers off the flight and onto their connecting flight for an 18h40 departure, ahead of the 18h45 departure for BKK? For info, the gates for both flights were 23 and 24, same place to walk to, clear security, etc.

I guess pilots are untouchable, infallible in opinion and actions (and comments) in your eyes, so I wouldn't expect you to approve.

Traveller

So getting 12 additional people on the plane and seated, door closed, etc. would have taken 0 minutes?




Someone upthread checked and said no flights were held for passengers that night, why don't you believe an airline employee?

Powers106

That would have been a drag, especially had it happened nowadays where you could already know your departure gate etc. and knew real-time what was happening!

kettle1

Did you read the part that under the ticket you purchased (Coc), DL could have put you on the next DL flt 24 hours later?

It appears someone was an A-hole to the pilots and ground staff at NRT. Only one person spoke up. Guess who?

So the OP has flown 30+ years. Welcome to the club.

Again, hit Pattaya Beach and relax. 6 hour delay on ANA, which DL did not need to provide. They did. I guess the folks in ATL could not give a crap about those traveling to BKK. They did.

Also, I am sure the OP's seat was taken by the time he made it to the gate. Relax.

Powers106

First, it's obvious you are locked into your position and wouldn't change your mind no matter what was said. Delta was 100% right in your opinion, and that's fine you feel that way. You have a lot of company in this thread so that's cool.

On the flight they announced that all connections including Taipei would make it, except Bangkok. The flight attendant onboard said there was a large group attending a conference in Taipei, so they'd make sure of that connection (this just prior to landing).

The only flight that I can see that flies NRT-TPE is DL 275 which is scheduled for departure at 18h30 and flight aware shows it left at 18h40. So if the passengers (I think she said about 40) could make that flight to gate 23, why couldn't 12 passengers make it to gate 24 for a scheduled 18h45 departure? Probably because they already made the new boarding passes with ANA and didn't want to change back to the easiest option for the passengers. Actually, I agree with the poster that said the seats were long gone by the time we landed, they must have taken advantage of those seats to fill them with oversold passengers or something.

One of those 2 employees had misinformation if it is indeed the case that no flights were held.

Anyway, I guess the overall sentiment is that I am a complete DYKWIA since I dared speak up for one of the few times in 30 years of flying Delta/NW, I should have just shut my mouth and happily accepted a very frustrating situation where you can see the plane while knowing that Delta made an effort for another set of passengers (but not your set), that pilots are not to be spoken to except in praise and I was lucky they even fixed the plane in PDX.

No wonder travel standards are slipping everywhere, you shouldn't complain about anything! However, I learned quite a lot from this thread, and feel like I have the right non-emotional wording to use in a letter to Delta, so thanks to all for the responses (even the negative ones). Safe and timely travels to all!

Cheers, Powers

cmn.jcs

Well, for one, you misunderstand the data you've read. Flightaware, for better or worse, will display what I believe are runway times, not gate times. If you go to the DL website, you'll see that the Taipei flight was not held, and actually left 8 minutes early.

No, I think the idea that you're a bit of a DYKWIA comes from 1) your comment to the pilots, and 2) what seems to be a complete inability to accept that there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes that you aren't aware of. There's crew timing, aircraft timing, availability on alternate flights, uncertainty on what time your flight would actually arrive--these factors have been presented (multiple times by now). But you appear to be set in your belief that what DL did was the "wrong thing". Does your delay suck? Absolutely. Will DL throw some miles or a voucher your way? Hopefully. Is this as a big a deal as you make it out to be? No.

Like others here, I have to say, let it go, don't take it personally, and deal with it like the rest of us have time and again.

stylo4444

You choose to ignore what a lot of people say and instead continue to point out how 40 pax had their flight held onwards to Taipei while you did not make yours so you feel that DL did not make the effort and should have waited 10 more minutes for you.

You do not understand that DL operations has many things to consider, including pilots with their hours and limits which they must abide by and take into account unexpected delays etc. Read what I said earlier. NRT - BKK is a 6 - 7.5 hour flight (depending on the season and winds), and from what I have seen it's typically operated by a 2 pilot crew. That segment is their flight for that day, they are not flying around all day and night - their workday starts and ends with that trip. NRT - BKK is a night flight as well, those pilots have to fly a couple hundred pax across the East China Sea, South China Sea in the evening hours which is different flying during the daytime. This require more alertness especially if there are less than ideal weather conditions on the way or at the destination where it's even more important for them to be alert as possible when landing a 500 ton aircraft. This makes a big difference in the amount of time Operations can decide whether they can hold a flight or not. They need to consider if the crew operating that flight will be within their limits or get dangerously close to their limit. Going over the limit risks pilot fatigue and pax safety...you really want an airline to risk this for you? Seriously?

And I am sure you'll mention the flight being held from NRT - TPE again, that's a 3.5 - 4.5 hour flight. A flight crew operating that segment likely has a little bit of breathing room in the case of an unexpected delay. There is a big difference in flying 3.5 hours vs. 7 hours. It's double the flying time. DL operations clearly made the decision that they needed to get the flight off at the time they did and took into consideration your arrival time and whether they could hold the aircraft or not, and they also looked at whether their pilots could afford that delay or run into an issue where they get close to their flying limits which is NOT what you want from the men and women responsible for flying your aircraft.

Seriously, you cannot be a DL SkyMiles member for as long as you are saying. If you have flown the amount of miles you are saying you've flown, over the number of years you're saying...you would clearly be a little more understanding than being incredibly unreasonable for a 6 hour delay on an international flight, which you blamed Delta and the pilots that flew you across the Pacific safely for 10 hours. If you plan on leaving DL and looking at other airlines, good...we don't need you.

steex

Just to be fair and clear, that person upthread was me and I was going off data available through external means only (nothing internal to Delta) and presumed reasonable connecting times. That said, what originally showed as an 18:30 departure (or more specifically, takeoff) for DL 275 was later amended to show 18:40 as OP notes.

Really, none of us probably ever will have enough information from DL's side of the counter to properly assess the situation, but I don't doubt the OP when he says:

I have seen it before where DL didn't hold all of the connecting flights due to a delayed inbound I was on at NRT, but I was lucky enough that my connection was held. I recall hearing the GA comment to a pax she seemed to recognize/know ahead of me that there wasn't enough staff (unsure if she meant DL staff, security staff, or something entirely different) on hand that evening to expedite connections to all flights, so they had to misconnect some folks and expedited others.

My delayed MSP-NRT apparently had an unusually large number of people connecting to my destination (SIN), so I won the luck of the draw that day. It seems completely plausible that the OP lost in the same manner. Certainly not an ideal situation, and doesn't necessarily make it an easier pill to swallow, but also isn't really a judgment on the value or importance of the OP and his fellow PDX-NRT-BKK travelers.

jasondc

the OP really needs to get over this and move on with life. At this point, it seems rather silly to be wasting so much time on this. It happened, it's done, DL will give you something for the inconvenience, didnt have to wait 24 hours for the next flight, just move on. Isn't there something better to expend one's energy on?