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-   -   Delta email regarding new program (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1614450-delta-email-regarding-new-program.html)

UnaCervezaPorFavor Sep 22, 2014 2:10 am


Originally Posted by jbalis (Post 23562317)
thanks I will look into this.....

Also I will edit out the name since it bothers you, just wondering why though? she wrote it and signed it as a representative of their company.

It's poor form, that's why.

CJKatl Sep 22, 2014 2:47 am

OP, suppose you sold apples and oranges. Historically, you made $0.01/apple, but $1.00/orange. It's barely worth selling apples, but you continue doing so in order to get people in the door to buy oranges. People that buy oranges are people you really want to get in the door, so that's who your primary marketing aims to bring in the door.

Years go by. You continue to market oranges. One day you realize the apples are actually now the moneymakers. You do the math and find that you are now making $1.00/apple and only $0.01/orange. Would you continue your marketing program aimed at people that buy oranges? No. Would you change to marketing to people that buy apples? Yes. Would you be expected to keep marketing primarily to orange buyers because that's what you've always done? Of course not.

DL used to make more profit on long haul routes. Short hops were just a means to get people onto long haul planes. Sure, there were customers who used the short hops, but the marketing was aimed at the more profitable customers, who flew internationally.

The market has changed. international fares are no longer the primary profit center. There is money to be made from those who purchase domestic, as fares have risen. The business traveler who purchases tickets later and for specific times appears to now be the more profitable customer, so DL has adjusted its marketing tool to encourage those customers. Just because a different customer was more profitable in the past does not mean the present DL has to target them. Business plans need to change with the time. (Exhibit A: K-Mart and JCP vs. Walmart and Target. Exhibit B: Newspapers vs. new media like Drudge or HuffPo. Exhibit C: Blackberry vs iPhone and Android.)

For those who purchase expensive domestic tickets frequently, the new system actually works much, much better. These people earn about 1/3 more points per year than they did under the old system. DL has used its marketing tool to encourage those people to fly DL.

If there is another airline that is courting your type of business with better offers, take them up on the offer, but don't expect DL to expend marketing capital on you now just because your type of business used to be more profitable. When international flights start being more profitable again, which will mean higher fares, DL will start courting you again, but something tells me most passengers would rather have the lower fares. I know when it comes to domestic flights, I'd be happy to go back to the lower fares of a few years ago.

VegasJosh Sep 22, 2014 3:19 am


Originally Posted by CJKatl (Post 23562424)
OP, suppose you sold apples and oranges. Historically, you made $0.01/apple, but $1.00/orange. It's barely worth selling apples, but you continue doing so in order to get people in the door to buy oranges. People that buy oranges are people you really want to get in the door, so that's who your primary marketing aims to bring in the door.

Years go by. You continue to market oranges. One day you realize the apples are actually now the moneymakers. You do the math and find that you are now making $1.00/apple and only $0.01/orange. Would you continue your marketing program aimed at people that buy oranges? No. Would you change to marketing to people that buy apples? Yes. Would you be expected to keep marketing primarily to orange buyers because that's what you've always done? Of course not.

DL used to make more profit on long haul routes. Short hops were just a means to get people onto long haul planes. Sure, there were customers who used the short hops, but the marketing was aimed at the more profitable customers, who flew internationally.

The market has changed. international fares are no longer the primary profit center. There is money to be made from those who purchase domestic, as fares have risen. The business traveler who purchases tickets later and for specific times appears to now be the more profitable customer, so DL has adjusted its marketing tool to encourage those customers. Just because a different customer was more profitable in the past does not mean the present DL has to target them. Business plans need to change with the time. (Exhibit A: K-Mart and JCP vs. Walmart and Target. Exhibit B: Newspapers vs. new media like Drudge or HuffPo. Exhibit C: Blackberry vs iPhone and Android.)

For those who purchase expensive domestic tickets frequently, the new system actually works much, much better. These people earn about 1/3 more points per year than they did under the old system. DL has used its marketing tool to encourage those people to fly DL.

If there is another airline that is courting your type of business with better offers, take them up on the offer, but don't expect DL to expend marketing capital on you now just because your type of business used to be more profitable. When international flights start being more profitable again, which will mean higher fares, DL will start courting you again, but something tells me most passengers would rather have the lower fares. I know when it comes to domestic flights, I'd be happy to go back to the lower fares of a few years ago.

you make a great point and are correct, as someone that still buys oranges I will just have to look to someone that is focused on selling them still :)
thanks

craig44485 Sep 22, 2014 3:52 am

To the OP, go with CX over SQ, the MPC is a better deal overall than KF. Make the switch and don't look back, Delta won't miss you, so don't sweat it. Living in SE Asia I stuck with DL as long as possible, but the reduction in SWUs from 10 total to 4 and being required to buy B fares to upgrade and get the mileage bonus just was not worth it, along with the fares going higher and higher.

Took my first flight on CX MNL HKG ORD in BE last week and loved it. The difference in service between the asian carriers and the US is like night and day. Try it, doubtful you will regret it.

VegasJosh Sep 22, 2014 3:58 am


Originally Posted by craig44485 (Post 23562547)
To the OP, go with CX over SQ, the MPC is a better deal overall than KF. Make the switch and don't look back, Delta won't miss you, so don't sweat it. Living in SE Asia I stuck with DL as long as possible, but the reduction in SWUs from 10 total to 4 and being required to buy B fares to upgrade and get the mileage bonus just was not worth it, along with the fares going higher and higher.

Took my first flight on CX MNL HKG ORD in BE last week and loved it. The difference in service between the asian carriers and the US is like night and day. Try it, doubtful you will regret it.

so you like the Marco Polo Club and would recommend it? do they have any match or is a total reset?
I will be Diamond next year, more then likely use the few miles I have left and my 4 global upgrades and out the door.

CarmenOM Sep 22, 2014 7:23 am


Originally Posted by Jaimito Cartero (Post 23562309)
I don't think there is a minimum Diamond spend requirement if you are domiciled/registered outside of North America.


Originally Posted by jbalis (Post 23562317)
thanks I will look into this.....

Jaimito is correct; there is no MQD requirement for medallion members who live outside the US (or North America? I don't recall which). Your non-US address should be on your account for this to apply.

MSPeconomist Sep 22, 2014 7:38 am


Originally Posted by MLCJ (Post 23559416)
While I understand Delta's move, I agree with the OP's question, which I have yet to receive a good explanation of, is why if spend is so important, why cap miles at 75,000? I just flew an $11,000 BE flight last minute to Prague, and while I will receive more miles next year for the trip, why shouldn't it be 100,000+?

My guess: The BE fares in excess of about $6000 tend to be purchased because of inventory availability when the Z and I fares are gone on the flight and the person must take that particular flight. alternatively, advance purchase requirements cannot be met. So these passengers are captive anyway. They must purchase the higher C or J fares rather than a cheaper BE ticket where the 75,000 cap would not bite.

jrl767 Sep 22, 2014 7:46 am


Originally Posted by CJKatl (Post 23562424)
OP, suppose you sold apples and oranges. Historically, you made $0.01/apple, but $1.00/orange. It's barely worth selling apples, but you continue doing so in order to get people in the door to buy oranges. People that buy oranges are people you really want to get in the door, so that's who your primary marketing aims to bring in the door.

Years go by. You continue to market oranges. One day you realize the apples are actually now the moneymakers. You do the math and find that you are now making $1.00/apple and only $0.01/orange. Would you continue your marketing program aimed at people that buy oranges? No. Would you change to marketing to people that buy apples? Yes. Would you be expected to keep marketing primarily to orange buyers because that's what you've always done? Of course not. ... The market has changed. ...

the thing is, it didn't change overnight ... there has been a lot of chatter across the FF community for a lot of years that those business models were unsustainable ... clearly the airlines knew that too; unsurprisingly it has taken pretty much all of them a long time to decide on and deploy new ones, and equally unsurprisingly (judging from a lot of the aggrieved reactions of shock and horror) much if not most of the FF community appears to be taking the news really personally

while there's a great deal of intellectual horsepower evident in a great number of posters and posts across FT, I still find a lot of today's whining somewhere between amusing and pathetic: FF programs have been evolving pretty much since they came into existence the early 1980s; those of us who have been members since then will certainly recall the days of 750- and 1000-mile segment minimums, 1000 miles for car rentals with participating partners, 1000 miles for hotel stays with participating partners, etc ... as well as much more generous redemptions such as 5000-mile one-way upgrades (and my personal nostalgic favorite, from TWA -- 50000 miles for a domestic round-trip F ticket PLUS an upgrade from any coach fare for a companion)

stuff happens ... we all have different value propositions with respect to our travel patterns and preferences; what "works" for someone flying a handful or two sub-500-mile segments a week likely isn't what "works" for someone flying a weekly TCON roundtrip, neither of those paradigms likely "works" for someone who spends 16-24 hrs a month on TATL/TPAC flights, and the various combinations of to-ing and fro-ing make it absolutely impossible for Delta or anyone to offer a single program structure that pleases ALL their customers

javabytes Sep 22, 2014 7:50 am


Originally Posted by flyzabit (Post 23562293)
Please remove the name of the Diamond Desk representative from your post (or mods, please assist). You may use x's or state that the name is replaced.


Originally Posted by UnaCervezaPorFavor (Post 23562372)
It's poor form, that's why.

:confused: They're made up names anyway, aren't they?

MSPeconomist Sep 22, 2014 8:16 am


Originally Posted by Robert Leach (Post 23562093)
Do what you need to do, but look at this statement you made very carefully.

If you truly believe this, then you will surely be willing to sacrifice something in order to continue flying on the airline with the "best product on the market."

Having said that, given that you are a DM I am not sure I quite understand what you are so upset about. If you fly, as an example, BKK-NRT-ATL-NRT-BKK currently on an M fare for $3600, you would earn 9740 miles each way x 2 = 19480 miles roundtrip plus a DM bonus of 125% that equals 24,350 miles plus an M fare bonus of 9740 roundtrip, for a grand total of 53750 miles. The same $3600 under the new program would earn you $3600 x 11 miles/per/dollar, which is 39,600 miles. However, under the new program, for two of your roundtrips you can use the lowest fare coupled with one of your Global Upgrades, so you would fly for far less than $3600 roundtrip on those two trips, so in a given year you would cut your out-of-pocket expenses a bit.

To me, when you factor in everything, for you it is very close to a wash. You will earn fewer miles, but you will also spend less for the same number of trips given that two of them can be from lowest fares rather than M fares. Given that you get to fly in the front cabin in the "best product on the market" I don't quite understand your angst.

Throughout time, people have generally had to pay more for the "best product on the market" than other options.

I am not trying to be a Delta apologist, but you do insinuate that you are getting chopped off at the knees when I respectfully submit that you are not. You are getting trimmed a bit, but that is just part of a natural market correction as competition decreases.

I did all this math in a hurry, so forgive me if I am off a few miles here or there.

However, DMs now can get only four GUCs versus having been able to pick six or ten SWUs in the past through choice benefits. Yes, the two GUCed RTs can be purchased for lower fares, but then the person must purchase BE fares for the other trips or purchase M+ and use miles to upgrade (which generally means no upgrades at the gate). [ExAMS is a bit different and presumably KLM policies on selling upgrades at the airport for money and or miles have not changed.]

VegasJosh Sep 22, 2014 1:58 pm

However, DMs now can get only four GUCs versus having been able to pick six or ten SWUs in the past through choice benefits. Yes, the two GUCed RTs can be purchased for lower fares, but then the person must purchase BE fares for the other trips or purchase M+ and use miles to upgrade (which generally means no upgrades at the gate). [ExAMS is a bit different and presumably KLM policies on selling upgrades at the airport for money and or miles have not changed.]

- this is kinda the point I was trying to make. I know that I am not a HVC and that my family's 20k is nothing compared to what some people spend so I do not think of myself as a HVC. What I do wonder is if 3 or 4 people (in this thread alone) leave are they really going to pick up a 80k spender becuase of this policy or are they going to lose more then they gain, we shall see right?

The only reason I started this was I thought their email to me had a "better then me" "take your free peanuts and shut up" attitude and was a bit snarky. I felt after all the year and money I had spent it should have been well.......different thats all

MLCJ Sep 22, 2014 2:55 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 23563200)
My guess: The BE fares in excess of about $6000 tend to be purchased because of inventory availability when the Z and I fares are gone on the flight and the person must take that particular flight. alternatively, advance purchase requirements cannot be met. So these passengers are captive anyway. They must purchase the higher C or J fares rather than a cheaper BE ticket where the 75,000 cap would not bite.

That's a good point and I understand your reasoning, however some of us, my company included, requires refundable tickets be purchased, either domestic or intl. They are always going to be $8-9k+ for the intl routes in which we won't receive the full 11 miles per dollar. While I may earn more on my domestic legs, it won't make up for the intl routes (and before someone says it, yes I know it's a free program). But it all goes back to my original point, isn't that the customer Delta is claiming they want to promote and reward?

VegasJosh Sep 22, 2014 4:39 pm


Originally Posted by MLCJ (Post 23565423)
That's a good point and I understand your reasoning, however some of us, my company included, requires refundable tickets be purchased, either domestic or intl. They are always going to be $8-9k+ for the intl routes in which we won't receive the full 11 miles per dollar. While I may earn more on my domestic legs, it won't make up for the intl routes (and before someone says it, yes I know it's a free program). But it all goes back to my original point, isn't that the customer Delta is claiming they want to promote and reward?

I agree with you, also people that like to say that it is a free program, congratulations you have been tricked. There is no such thing as free in the business world. Don't worry Delta has carefully factored in the cost of their FF program and passed in along to all of us. It's like "free" breakfast at hotel, if you think it is really free I am selling a bridge later. I am more upset they roll back benefits and increase price.

N830MH Sep 22, 2014 5:36 pm


Originally Posted by dd1612 (Post 23559428)
Here is one obvious reason:

Because Delta owns, runs/ operates it's Frequent Flyer program. Delta makes the rules ... you as a traveler do not!

I don't care about the rules. There is no such thing. Bring it back the old program. I'm tired of waiting!! Eliminate MQDs requirements now! I'm feds up with Delta!

dimramon Sep 22, 2014 6:22 pm


Originally Posted by N830MH (Post 23566143)
! I'm feds up with Delta!

Then fly someone else!

You keep saying you are "fed up" and you keep saying "good riddance". Yet, you keep posting and you are still flying Delta.

I think you can either accept the rules, or find a different airline.


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