Sep 3, 2014, 3:39 pm
Last edit by: mbwmbw
Official Response from ExpertFlyer regarding Delta's ability to restrict data:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23465105-post182.html
Check the updated thread at (see the Wiki at the top):
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...available.html
You will see that they actually used screenshots of ExpertFlyer. I'm sure someone in DL Corporate just saw this and said it's making a headache for us and not providing any additional value so shut it down.... Almost guarantee it.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23465105-post182.html
Hi folks,
All of us here at ExpertFlyer just want to say thank you for the positive support we've been receiving, both on FT and via email.
Reading some of the posts on this thread it appears there might be some misconceptions on how airline data is distributed. To be clear, a GDS distributes airline data to its customers at the discretion of the airline. The airline-GDS contracts state that the airline controls the flow of data thru the GDS and if an airline decides that they don't want a particular GDS customer, agency or non-agency, to have their data the GDS must block data from being available to a customer if the airline asks them to. As noted in our quoted statement, Delta has already done this with many online travel agencies.
So as a practical matter, in the near term this meant that we had no choice and didn't "cave" as some have speculated, the DL information was going to be withheld with or without our participation. We continue to explore our options but for now, rightly or wrongly, the GDS-agency contracts allow for this as they have the right to modify the content made available to agencies.
We cannot comment on any future plans regarding this specific matter however we will continue to work on behalf of our customers to add as much value as possible to ExpertFlyer.
-The ExpertFlyer.com Team
All of us here at ExpertFlyer just want to say thank you for the positive support we've been receiving, both on FT and via email.
Reading some of the posts on this thread it appears there might be some misconceptions on how airline data is distributed. To be clear, a GDS distributes airline data to its customers at the discretion of the airline. The airline-GDS contracts state that the airline controls the flow of data thru the GDS and if an airline decides that they don't want a particular GDS customer, agency or non-agency, to have their data the GDS must block data from being available to a customer if the airline asks them to. As noted in our quoted statement, Delta has already done this with many online travel agencies.
So as a practical matter, in the near term this meant that we had no choice and didn't "cave" as some have speculated, the DL information was going to be withheld with or without our participation. We continue to explore our options but for now, rightly or wrongly, the GDS-agency contracts allow for this as they have the right to modify the content made available to agencies.
We cannot comment on any future plans regarding this specific matter however we will continue to work on behalf of our customers to add as much value as possible to ExpertFlyer.
-The ExpertFlyer.com Team
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...available.html
You will see that they actually used screenshots of ExpertFlyer. I'm sure someone in DL Corporate just saw this and said it's making a headache for us and not providing any additional value so shut it down.... Almost guarantee it.
DL forces ExpertFlyer to remove ALL data pertaining to DL flights
Sep 1, 2014, 4:15 pm
#91
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I'm guessing DL may be able to get KVS to quit scraping DL.com. My guess is they will be unsuccessful in blocking KVS from getting DL data scraped from third party sites. KVS has been scraping all along and to my knowledge doesn't really have an agreement with a data source like EF does that, if cut off, strikes a hard blow to their entire business. More likely, DL would [need to] go after that site for making the data available to KVS and the like.
Sep 1, 2014, 4:18 pm
#92
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I hear you, it sucks that you don't get that text anymore or that alert of any kind. However, if you can't, then no one else can either. Your playing on a level playing field. As for the fare class, why can't you check on Delta.com and see if you can book a ticket in the fare class that you need?. You can't SDC until T-24 anyway so its not like you really have to look pre -24.
Sep 1, 2014, 4:22 pm
#93
Join Date: Dec 2009
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As others have stated, I think EF doesn't want to suffer the wrath of DL's legal team to fight their C&D order.
Sep 1, 2014, 4:29 pm
#94
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Under the laws of this country they are required to be competitive. Fixing the terms of business and trying to manipulate how they do business with their customers would be considered "restraints of trade".
Sep 1, 2014, 5:23 pm
#95
Suspended
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Sure you have a choice--the choice to not fly DL and vote with your spending on other airlines. Of course, DL is counting on the fact that you will stick with them, regardless; only a tiny fraction of a percentage of Delta FFs use EF, so DL can't be all that concerned.
As long as DAL share price is going up and planes are full and there is little competition in the market they can anything they please and we have no choice!
Sep 1, 2014, 5:27 pm
#96
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My question exactly.
Also fact themselves are not really subject to copyright, see FEIST PUBLICATIONS, INC. v. RURAL TELEPHONE SERVICE CO., 499 U.S. 340 (1991):
Feist prevailed and was permitted to use Rural's telephone listing data.
With ExpertFlyer and others, I suspect it's mostly a matter of having neither deep pockets nor a willingness to risk what capital they have to engage Delta in litigation. The advantage goes to the 800# gorilla.
Also fact themselves are not really subject to copyright, see FEIST PUBLICATIONS, INC. v. RURAL TELEPHONE SERVICE CO., 499 U.S. 340 (1991):
Feist prevailed and was permitted to use Rural's telephone listing data.
With ExpertFlyer and others, I suspect it's mostly a matter of having neither deep pockets nor a willingness to risk what capital they have to engage Delta in litigation. The advantage goes to the 800# gorilla.
Sep 1, 2014, 5:48 pm
#98
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: missing YX more every day
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unlisted
I would argue that the Delta information published by the GDS is hardly equivalent to the "facts" of name, town and telephone number required by state law to be published in a white pages directory. Accordingly, I'd hesitate to cite Feist as supporting EF's unfettered right to distribute the Delta information.
Now DL's inventory is unlisted, that's all.
Sep 1, 2014, 5:54 pm
#100
In memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
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To DL2SXM:
I can see me calling the DM hotline, and saying . . . .
I wanna go to BKK sometime betwen November & January. I wanna leave on a Wed or Thurs. Could you please research every US hub to NRT for V class inventory every Wed & Thurs for those 3 months?
Then, check NRT/BKK, please - same 3 months.
Same thing on the way back.
While you're checking, what type of aircraft is each flight?
How full is the J cabin?
Are there any seats available for a GUC UG?
No exit row EC aisle available? OK, start over. Check some other dates.
These are all things I do on my own with EF & DL.com together. It would tie me up and a DM phone agent forever on the phone, but, I can check in between work stuff throughout the day.
Last edited by davetravels; Sep 1, 2014 at 6:01 pm
Sep 1, 2014, 5:59 pm
#101
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My favorite store for building materials is Menards, and they also allow you to check inventory on hand at any store.
Sep 1, 2014, 6:05 pm
#104
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Maybe it is just me...
How does the energy expended on predicting what might happen produce any kind of ROI?
Me: after nearly 3 million miles on AA and EP (yes, I know this DL) for the last 10 years it still boils down to: you get upgraded or you don't.
Me: after nearly 3 million miles on AA and EP (yes, I know this DL) for the last 10 years it still boils down to: you get upgraded or you don't.
Sep 1, 2014, 6:05 pm
#105
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Furthermore, when I'm looking at complicated intl flights an agent is not going to come even close to providing the same amount of information with anywhere near the same efficiency as I could get on EF. I frequently have routing that DL.com won't even show (or give insane 24hr+ layovers) unless I piece together multi-city searches, whereas EF will show the proper routing with valid fares files for them, as well as inventory and seat maps.
To get that same amount of information using the website will literally take an hour where I could get it on EF in a minute or two. An agent isn't going to provide inventory of fare buckets or seat map info either, or tell me when DL files fares so I can book into A or P on domestic routes.