sethb

Did you send the photo to Delta Customer Care and ask them why that was permitted? Somebody would lose non-rev privileges.

thesaints

SamuelS

This is not normal practice unless there were misconnects that didn't board at last minute. Non-rev onload/seat allocation process should not seat them in Economy, and then be manually processed later into F (let alone after boarding.)

wilsonnyc

didn't seem to be any misconnects as the seatmap (and gate screen) still showed 8 D1 seats open right up until after we boarded. Flight wasn't oversold either. Everyone who filled the seats were called up, either 1 by 1 or as pairs. One of the pairs being brought up ended with a paid passenger being asked to change his seat. (he did).

Our return flight - also on a cleared RUC - is looking pretty empty as well. I'll report back on how the D1 cabin was filled and by who.

Thinking back on this, though, I really think a lot of this could be solved if DL would confirm that K+ fares + miles would waitlist all the way up to the gate. I know I would have no problem with that scenario. As it is, 4 RUCs for a NYC based DM (obviously picking the GUCs for the DM gift) is only 2 RT transcons. I would happily buy up K+ and burn miles if I knew that would waitlist me all the way to the gate.

sethb

Did you ask for an explanation?

Felixishim

agree much with the last portion, K+ with miles if stays at 12.5k i would buy up much more IF upgrade with miles can wait-list till gate, it is pretty stupid i think that is still not done given that you can even use miles to pay for drinks in skyclub. Gate should be able to call skyclub if can't do it from their terminal and deduct miles or call the skymiles desk.

it is stupid that now it is still not able to waitlist at gate.
they can also exchange miles into upgrade voucher so that it can clear at the gate. like a 12.5k upgrade voucher for this pax, this flight and if it is not clear can just re-deposit. ofcoz they can also make the SFO/LAX-JFK only available for PM and DM with K+ vs other route as well.

Vuelos

How may times have you been to EZE. You speak like you go there weekly and always have the same problem. It's an isolated incident, I'd bet. You specialize in statistics and analysis professionally. Don't you? You should know far better than to troll with isolated incidents.

Nonrevs listed with children too young are NOT to be upgraded onboard and list for Y only. Those being brought forward are likely pushed back to Y for weight and balance issues and would be eligible for J otherwise.

Heck, these days, good luck regularly clearing EZE given the high load factors.

AND WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES YOUR POST HAVE TO DO WITH TRANSCON UPGRADES. OR IS IT JUST PART OF YOUR CONTINUAL POST PADDING?!

DLATL777

This subject always makes me laugh when the Delta lovers show up or the individuals who best argument tool is to re-use this line that has been around ever since I joined flyertalk; "Many paid passengers act worse than Non-revs" etc etc or some variant of the sort.

Save it.

We have GDS ticketing access. We know exactly how many seats are not sold and can watch as non-revs fill the cabins. Even regular flyers can typically tell now with the incredibly public GIDS. Despite the declaration of many on this board, it doesn’t take a calculator and astrophysics to determine who is an employee and who paid (paid, certificates, miles or otherwise) for their business class seat (and please, again, don’t take this down the road of “how would you know? Were they dressed a certain way” “I dress in sweat pants when I fly” “I flew paid J when I was 15 did you think I was a non-rev too?” etc.

Save it. You can wear your yoga pants all you want.

The truth here is that I too have had numerous flights "ruined" (quoted due to relatively -what ruins a flight for one may not ruin it for another and is a basis of opinion and not a point for further argument) by non-revs. Loud talking, high-fives, selfies, facetime, flash photography, discussions of Delta policy, even some who act entitled loudly enough so other passengers can hear and watch them, as if this is moment of entitlement. I’ve even had to deal with body odor when a group of 4 (around) 15 year old non-revs were upgraded around me on a AMS-DTW flight last year where all seats on either side of me smelled like weed and alcohol and it was clear the kids had not gone to bed. It was a wonderful treat for paying for my seat. These are the items that have ruined international flights for me. When the seats stay empty, there is more attentive service, those who paid/used miles/spent some currency to be there are the ones in business yields to a less crowded cabin (unless of course the cabin is sold out), no seat change requests, and the general feeling by those that actually paid to be there that they made the right decision.

This isn’t a post about anything other than the fact that US airlines value putting their employees in business class. I stress over and over this ISNT a Delta problem, it’s a US airlines problems. Ever flown Global First on United on an off-time? It’s also a non-rev party up front. AA? Same thing-Watch the F cabin on their new SYD route, once we hit slower travel times you will see plenty of employees up there too. This situation isn’t going anywhere so its not really worth arguing about honestly-we should ALL save it. Ive been flying business regularly on Delta for the last 12 years and while that is not a lot for many on this board, I have seen the progression of non-rev behavior and any enforcement of “Dress-code” (quoted again, easy tiger) go away rapidly. There is none. There is very little care for enforcement, especially by KLM in AMS. Its here to stay folks, and unfortunately, the employees know it too.

In my ***Opinion*** (again, easy tiger) no one should be upgraded to premium cabins for free, including employees. This would solve the problem and while it would create others (I mean, what doesn't) I think it would remove a lot of the issues in this discussion. Until then, I will continue to vote with my wallet whenever I can because that is all I can do. Its not going to change.

dzflyer

Maybe one of the best if not the best post I have read to date. Just like you and msp economist I have been seeing the same issues and much more of it lately. Its apparently obvious that Delta isnt going to enforce things as well which may be the biggest problem of all. I also agree with previously mentioned solutions and the best one is allowing k+ upgrades based on being a pm or dm the fare class and cost of ticket that way the well you only paid 400 dollars and got upgraded argument gets thrown out the window.

Traveller

Best one for who? You? That doesn't mean it's the best solution for everyone.

thesaints

Is it that much better to have a group of revenue passengers (maybe who even paid full refundable fare) who behave badly next to you ?

I'm so old school to think that one's behaviour depends more one one's upbringing than to rev/non-rev status.

As the front cabin filling with people who didn't pay, or paid to little is concerned, it would definitely be my preference to travel only in the company of those who file their 1040 in the 39% tax bracket, went to Harvard/Oxford/Heidelberg, or better yet are going there and look very attractive. I don't really care if they are stowaways, though.

sethb

I have no problem with non-revs getting premium cabins free. I sometimes have a problem with people's behavior.

Fortunately, Delta has a policy that people who engage in the sort of behavior I have a problem with will lose their non-rev privileges, and I have a camera.

dzflyer

Maybe not the best for everyone but the best for pms and dms who had the tcon upgrades taken away and a way for delta to maximize revenue yet still reward loyalty. Its the best compromise i have heard yet.

wilsonnyc

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but i think/hope we should all agree that there should be a compromised solution for these routes. I'll grant DL that giving away D1 transcon service/seats as free upgrades may not be in their best interest. But i still maintain that 4 annual RUCs for someone based in NYC is simply not enough to keep their top tier NYC area flyers happy. I fly this route often and once I've burned my RUCs, it's K+ and a prayer that it clears before check in. If I miss mileage upgrades (has happened before) it becomes a game of "why would I buy up to K+ if I'm just going to sit in Y anyhow?". I feel DL was trying to throw DMs/PMs a bone with the whole "you can now use RUCs on D1 transcons!", but ended up cornering us into using upgrade instruments or buying D1 outright. While the cost of D1 has admittedly gone down, I would appreciate an in-between compromise: figure $600-$800 fare + miles that waitlist to the gate? Sold.

TrojanTraveler

I've been seeing this more and more as well. If you did complain, all they will do is throw miles at you and say that "this shouldn't happen". But as many of us have seen from the overall decline in service, I'm not sure these complaints have any impact (though I've been told by better FAs that while they write up stuff, they're not sure anyone is listening to them and that maybe they are more likely to listen to paying pax).