Protests and Arrests at MSP
Jun 17, 2014, 3:14 pm
#46
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,679
We regularly (for every departing and arriving flight) use the wheelchair service for my wife.
The service levels are atrocious.
Their route is strange.
Every time, have seen a number of elderly stranded and left to fend for themselves on the upper level, without any way of going downstairs to the baggage claim level.
Many a times have tried to flag down empty/ non-pax bearing electric carts only to have them whizz by.
Many a times for close in gates it is better to walk slowly, even in pain, than wait for a wheelchair pusher or an electric cart.
Even if one tips the service providers they seem to feel entitled to it.
Have complained regularly to the MSP Customer Service phone number (Executive and/ or Manager) for this service, have never received a letter or a phone call in return.
No one seems to know at MSP to whom these complaints have to be directed.
It's great that finally this is being highlighted!
The service levels are atrocious.
Their route is strange.
Every time, have seen a number of elderly stranded and left to fend for themselves on the upper level, without any way of going downstairs to the baggage claim level.
Many a times have tried to flag down empty/ non-pax bearing electric carts only to have them whizz by.
Many a times for close in gates it is better to walk slowly, even in pain, than wait for a wheelchair pusher or an electric cart.
Even if one tips the service providers they seem to feel entitled to it.
Have complained regularly to the MSP Customer Service phone number (Executive and/ or Manager) for this service, have never received a letter or a phone call in return.
No one seems to know at MSP to whom these complaints have to be directed.
It's great that finally this is being highlighted!
It's sad that most folks here would rather degrade into an OMNI conversion on minimum wage when there are real issues for people who need the service. This is DL's fortress hub. They pay for the majority of the service. They need to be driving service levels and staffing.
Jun 17, 2014, 3:26 pm
#47
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Is there any evidence that service would improve if these employees were to be paid more? Or would people want DL to fire them all and accept job applications for $10 per hour positions? It sort of reminds me of when TSA was created and the first thing that happened was that all of the previous screeners at some stations suddenly had good government jobs.
If service is a concern, maybe DL or the airport should provide more training and set higher standards for ability to communicate in English, knowledge of the airport and airline procedures, general MN tourist information, etc. The wheelchair pushers could become roving airport ambassadors who are also charged with the duty of answering random questions from passengers and generally providing help when requested. Would people want this? I would think not as it would distract the wheelchair pushers from their main duty, but being more able to help their own "passengers" would be useful.
If service is a concern, maybe DL or the airport should provide more training and set higher standards for ability to communicate in English, knowledge of the airport and airline procedures, general MN tourist information, etc. The wheelchair pushers could become roving airport ambassadors who are also charged with the duty of answering random questions from passengers and generally providing help when requested. Would people want this? I would think not as it would distract the wheelchair pushers from their main duty, but being more able to help their own "passengers" would be useful.
Jun 17, 2014, 3:56 pm
#48
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One thing that has not been mentioned but is very obvious to those that pass through MSP on a regular basis is the majority of those wheelchair pushers are east african (Somali) immigrants. I am sure the guy in charge is the most likely the same and is one very well off dude making more than any of us posting on here.
There was a thread about slave labor signs in ATL earlier this week, maybe they need to post a few at MSP.
There was a thread about slave labor signs in ATL earlier this week, maybe they need to post a few at MSP.
Jun 17, 2014, 4:15 pm
#49
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Is there any evidence that service would improve if these employees were to be paid more? Or would people want DL to fire them all and accept job applications for $10 per hour positions? It sort of reminds me of when TSA was created and the first thing that happened was that all of the previous screeners at some stations suddenly had good government jobs.
Most cart drivers at MSP seem to speak English just fine -- most are from what was British Somalia and grew up with English.
Jun 17, 2014, 4:27 pm
#50
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta Platinum
Posts: 115
I'm going to try to be constructive and offer some honest advice. Merge the people who push the wheelchairs and the people drive the carts. They seem to be two different groups of people right now. Maybe have a schedule where they give wheelchair assistance one week and drive the cart the next. That way they're not on their feet all the time. Give them a raise, to something like $10 but also raise what is expected of them. Give them a week of training so they can become more of an ambassador rather than just a chair pusher. Train them the best way to navigate the airport, basic elderly care, points of interest in the airport and city, best customer service techniques, etc. Like I said earlier, you're generally paid on how much you'd cost to replace. If they're trained well and take time to be a good ambassador and assistant, they'd be worth more.
Also, I was a little surprised this was handled and paid for by Delta. I guess that was part of the agreement for being a hub. Personally, I think this should be handled by the airport commission. Delta should help pay for it but maybe this is a case where some commission oversight would actually be nice since they reflect on the airport as a whole. Maybe taking the lowest bid wasn't the best option in this case.
Also, I was a little surprised this was handled and paid for by Delta. I guess that was part of the agreement for being a hub. Personally, I think this should be handled by the airport commission. Delta should help pay for it but maybe this is a case where some commission oversight would actually be nice since they reflect on the airport as a whole. Maybe taking the lowest bid wasn't the best option in this case.
Jun 17, 2014, 4:29 pm
#51
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Programs: DL PM / SPG Gold
Posts: 562
I'm confused.
Why doesn't the "free market" include banding together with my co-workers and demanding better wages and working conditions?
Then the company can decide what to do.
In the private sector unions are a choice that companies make. It is market driven.
And paying low wages and expecting the government to make up the difference with free healthcare and food stamps is certainly not free market.
When will you people learn that a rising tide carries all ships. When everyone is better off, everyone is better off.
Kind of ashamed right now that I belong to the same 'club' as you.
David
Why doesn't the "free market" include banding together with my co-workers and demanding better wages and working conditions?
Then the company can decide what to do.
In the private sector unions are a choice that companies make. It is market driven.
And paying low wages and expecting the government to make up the difference with free healthcare and food stamps is certainly not free market.
When will you people learn that a rising tide carries all ships. When everyone is better off, everyone is better off.
Kind of ashamed right now that I belong to the same 'club' as you.
David
Jun 17, 2014, 4:36 pm
#52
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Who said same/similar? Also, you don't know that they don't have debt. Without employer-sponsored benefits, they very well may have medical or educational debt that many of us do not have, thanks to what our employers provide us and our families. Also, educational debt is not "bad debt" by most definitions. You can take years and years to pay it off, at low and manageable rates, and even have it forgiven after a certain time. Conversely, high-interest debt such as revolving credit is much worse, harder to pay back due to borderline predatory rates, is rarely "forgiven" without declaring bankruptcy, even after making regular payments, and prohibits people from making larger strides personally once buried under a sizable sum.
But the larger point is that I'm not going to get too worked up over a recent grad making $15-18/year with $100k+ in debt; just as many who are opposed to higher wages/better benefit like to talk about choices, I'm going to do the same. It was a conscious decision for someone to go $100k+ into debt to get an education. They made that choice with the hopes that they'd be able to pay it back, but no guarantee. Perhaps we also need to be discussing assistance with education in the same breath, because I don't think those who take on that much debt should be given a free pass while others who can't afford the time, or are unable to get student loans, should be criticized for wanting to make a respectable living.
But the larger point is that I'm not going to get too worked up over a recent grad making $15-18/year with $100k+ in debt; just as many who are opposed to higher wages/better benefit like to talk about choices, I'm going to do the same. It was a conscious decision for someone to go $100k+ into debt to get an education. They made that choice with the hopes that they'd be able to pay it back, but no guarantee. Perhaps we also need to be discussing assistance with education in the same breath, because I don't think those who take on that much debt should be given a free pass while others who can't afford the time, or are unable to get student loans, should be criticized for wanting to make a respectable living.
IBTL.
Jun 17, 2014, 4:42 pm
#53
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So you have sympathy for those who rack up $$ in credit card debt, but not those with student loan debt? Why not just stay out of debt altogether? Unfortunately that is not the American way - buy what you can't afford and worry about the consequences later. Happens to the low-wage earners and the high-wage earners. But there are some people who live debt-free. Yes, it is possible to graduate from college debt-free. It takes some planning and some hard work, but it can be done.
IBTL.
IBTL.
Jun 17, 2014, 4:55 pm
#54
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,679
Is there any evidence that service would improve if these employees were to be paid more? Or would people want DL to fire them all and accept job applications for $10 per hour positions? It sort of reminds me of when TSA was created and the first thing that happened was that all of the previous screeners at some stations suddenly had good government jobs.
If service is a concern, maybe DL or the airport should provide more training and set higher standards for ability to communicate in English, knowledge of the airport and airline procedures, general MN tourist information, etc. The wheelchair pushers could become roving airport ambassadors who are also charged with the duty of answering random questions from passengers and generally providing help when requested. Would people want this? I would think not as it would distract the wheelchair pushers from their main duty, but being more able to help their own "passengers" would be useful.
If service is a concern, maybe DL or the airport should provide more training and set higher standards for ability to communicate in English, knowledge of the airport and airline procedures, general MN tourist information, etc. The wheelchair pushers could become roving airport ambassadors who are also charged with the duty of answering random questions from passengers and generally providing help when requested. Would people want this? I would think not as it would distract the wheelchair pushers from their main duty, but being more able to help their own "passengers" would be useful.
Ultimately this seems like the biggest issue is no one is accountable. Because DL is required to provide the service as part of ADA, DOT and FAA regs for free it's in DL's business interest to pay as little as possible. It's in the contractors best interest to staff it as light as they can to maximize the margins.
Simply put, there's no incentive for anyone to actually do a good job here. There's no metric collections and as far as I can tell no one really wants to see how the sausage is being made in this situation.
Jun 17, 2014, 4:56 pm
#55
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seattle, WA
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Posts: 832
So you have sympathy for those who rack up $$ in credit card debt, but not those with student loan debt? Why not just stay out of debt altogether? Unfortunately that is not the American way - buy what you can't afford and worry about the consequences later. Happens to the low-wage earners and the high-wage earners. But there are some people who live debt-free. Yes, it is possible to graduate from college debt-free. It takes some planning and some hard work, but it can be done.
IBTL.
IBTL.
Jun 17, 2014, 4:57 pm
#56
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I'm confused.
Why doesn't the "free market" include banding together with my co-workers and demanding better wages and working conditions?
Then the company can decide what to do.
In the private sector unions are a choice that companies make. It is market driven.
And paying low wages and expecting the government to make up the difference with free healthcare and food stamps is certainly not free market.
When will you people learn that a rising tide carries all ships. When everyone is better off, everyone is better off.
Kind of ashamed right now that I belong to the same 'club' as you.
David
Why doesn't the "free market" include banding together with my co-workers and demanding better wages and working conditions?
Then the company can decide what to do.
In the private sector unions are a choice that companies make. It is market driven.
And paying low wages and expecting the government to make up the difference with free healthcare and food stamps is certainly not free market.
When will you people learn that a rising tide carries all ships. When everyone is better off, everyone is better off.
Kind of ashamed right now that I belong to the same 'club' as you.
David
And I'm not sure what club you are referring to but I'm pretty sure you don't belong to my club. While a rising tide indeed carries all ships, I doubt you and I believe in the same tide. First of all, there shouldn't be any minimum wage. You don't like the wage offered, go work somewhere else or better still, start your own business.
If the government got out of the way, there would be more jobs. If there were more jobs, there would be more demand for labor. More demand for labor puts upward pressure on wages. Hourly wage problem solved. Basic market economics. See North Dakota.
Raising the minimum wage absent a demand for labor only leads to one thing... a loss of jobs. Same as Obama's income inequality screech. A war on the job creators and the relentless push for higher taxes needed to fund the welfare state will only result in fewer jobs and more companies moving to business friendly states or worse, more Medtronics leaving the country.
Jun 17, 2014, 5:34 pm
#58
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It just takes some "thinking outside the box" for it to be a reality, something most college students want no part of!
Jun 17, 2014, 5:38 pm
#59
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL DM, SPG Gold
Posts: 832
How about taking a year or two off to work first? How about taking AP classes in HS or even taking college courses the last two years of HS, like programs offered in multiple states, so that by the time you graduate from HS you have two years of college under your belt paid for by your taxes/state?
It just takes some "thinking outside the box" for it to be a reality, something most college students want no part of!
It just takes some "thinking outside the box" for it to be a reality, something most college students want no part of!
Even in your example you've only cut down the tuition to about $100k, still way out of reach. There are a lot of problems with our higher education system in the US (such as the fact that tuition is increasing at a rate of 4-5x inflation).
Jun 17, 2014, 5:47 pm
#60
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"you people"?
And I'm not sure what club you are referring to but I'm pretty sure you don't belong to my club. While a rising tide indeed carries all ships, I doubt you and I believe in the same tide. First of all, there shouldn't be any minimum wage. You don't like the wage offered, go work somewhere else or better still, start your own business.
If the government got out of the way, there would be more jobs. If there were more jobs, there would be more demand for labor. More demand for labor puts upward pressure on wages. Hourly wage problem solved. Basic market economics. See North Dakota.
Raising the minimum wage absent a demand for labor only leads to one thing... a loss of jobs. Same as Obama's income inequality screech. A war on the job creators and the relentless push for higher taxes needed to fund the welfare state will only result in fewer jobs and more companies moving to business friendly states or worse, more Medtronics leaving the country.
And I'm not sure what club you are referring to but I'm pretty sure you don't belong to my club. While a rising tide indeed carries all ships, I doubt you and I believe in the same tide. First of all, there shouldn't be any minimum wage. You don't like the wage offered, go work somewhere else or better still, start your own business.
If the government got out of the way, there would be more jobs. If there were more jobs, there would be more demand for labor. More demand for labor puts upward pressure on wages. Hourly wage problem solved. Basic market economics. See North Dakota.
Raising the minimum wage absent a demand for labor only leads to one thing... a loss of jobs. Same as Obama's income inequality screech. A war on the job creators and the relentless push for higher taxes needed to fund the welfare state will only result in fewer jobs and more companies moving to business friendly states or worse, more Medtronics leaving the country.
They merely want to have their corporate base restructured on paper to be legally a non-US company based in Europe to get around US taxes and get some biotech booty from its acquisition target.If Medtronics pulls this off, will there be more MSP-Europe service to pull a double Dutch Irish sandwich? That would make the service cart operators busier but not necessarily result in a huge spike in tip income.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jun 17, 2014 at 5:53 pm