Rumor: 747 B/E seat reduction
#76
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: EWR, BDL
Posts: 4,471
If DL is indeed removing J seats from the UD and replacing those with E+ seats, then perhaps they could extend the J cabin on the MD past the 2L/2R doors. Kinda like what NW did with the 747-200s. J went past 2L/2R and Y started just before the wing area.
http://web.archive.org/web/200206020...0z/index.shtml
Something like this
http://web.archive.org/web/200206020...0z/index.shtml
Something like this
#77
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 349
If DL is indeed removing J seats from the UD and replacing those with E+ seats, then perhaps they could extend the J cabin on the MD past the 2L/2R doors. Kinda like what NW did with the 747-200s. J went past 2L/2R and Y started just before the wing area.
http://web.archive.org/web/200206020...0z/index.shtml
Something like this
http://web.archive.org/web/200206020...0z/index.shtml
Something like this
#78
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MSP; SM with status & many BIS miles
Programs: AA, WN & many Hotels... avoids UA like the plague!
Posts: 1,019
Several rows of 3x3 EC on the UD of the 744's would feel cramped, would be surprised if DL were to do a 3x2 or 2x3 ala MD8x/9x/717 for the UD. Storage space would be a challenge as others have mentioned for the UD as well.
However "what if" DL is thinking a 3x3 for the UD with slim seats at EC pitch (or a bit more) and for some missions/routes, do similar to FI/ICE where the center is blocked and sell a 2x2 at a premium above regular coach, yet below discounted J. Then for other routes/missions (e.g. beach/high-density, charters, etc) sell the full 3x3 config. This could even be done where part say first 5 rows of the UD is sold as an enhanced EC (e.g. same service, just more room) with the remaining rows being 3x3 EC.
Impossible? Lets way to see what DL will actually do...
However "what if" DL is thinking a 3x3 for the UD with slim seats at EC pitch (or a bit more) and for some missions/routes, do similar to FI/ICE where the center is blocked and sell a 2x2 at a premium above regular coach, yet below discounted J. Then for other routes/missions (e.g. beach/high-density, charters, etc) sell the full 3x3 config. This could even be done where part say first 5 rows of the UD is sold as an enhanced EC (e.g. same service, just more room) with the remaining rows being 3x3 EC.
Impossible? Lets way to see what DL will actually do...
#79
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,411
I don't really see AAs F as that much of a step up from AA J: slightly bigger TV and seat, same layout. Maybe the service is better, but is it that much better? AA even fails on their own website to really show any major differences between the two. Certainly nothing like SQ or EK F.
IMO DL J (specifically the new BE lie-flat seats) doesn't seem that far off from some of the lower end F products, at least in terms of hard product. Certainly they are towards the top of the heap when it comes to J. If it's the service you are after DL is probably not your best choice.
IMO DL J (specifically the new BE lie-flat seats) doesn't seem that far off from some of the lower end F products, at least in terms of hard product. Certainly they are towards the top of the heap when it comes to J. If it's the service you are after DL is probably not your best choice.
The difference might not be incredible, but if I am going to spend $6k and I have a choice to fly Delta BE or AA F, I will select AA (or UA) F. If I am already going to spend that much and I can spend the same or a little more to fly in true F on a European or Asian carrier, than I would not even consider Delta.
#80
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However "what if" DL is thinking a 3x3 for the UD with slim seats at EC pitch (or a bit more) and for some missions/routes, do similar to FI/ICE where the center is blocked and sell a 2x2 at a premium above regular coach, yet below discounted J. Then for other routes/missions (e.g. beach/high-density, charters, etc) sell the full 3x3 config. This could even be done where part say first 5 rows of the UD is sold as an enhanced EC (e.g. same service, just more room) with the remaining rows being 3x3 EC.
#81
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MSP; SM with status & many BIS miles
Programs: AA, WN & many Hotels... avoids UA like the plague!
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Trying to sell it as "Euro-Business" isn't going to get any real increase over a standard EC seat. Having the middle seat open doesn't do anything to resolve the overall cramped feeling. They also don't use the 747 for high density/beach markets... there are smaller config planes for that which already have les BE seats (767 subfleet)
As for DL currently using 744s on beach/high-density markets you are correct, however given the speculation occuring in this forum, question is what or where might DL use a higher density 744 vs. current? Look at how NW used a subfleet of 742s for beach and other higher density routes.
Granted I dont think this rumored reconfig is targeted at the routes where NW used to deploy the "beach" 742s, likewise not a overlap for 767 or other specials. Rather my guess is to be put onto other routes, or simply use on some existing routes where the revenue mix is changing.
#82
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Sorry for not reading this thread as I have been in Palestine, but 73A on the 744 is my favorite seat for the whole of DL equipment. I have yet to get a newly configured 332/3 but would be more than sad to lost the 744 UP as I have been going out of my way to get on the 744s.
#83
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The difference might not be incredible, but if I am going to spend $6k and I have a choice to fly Delta BE or AA F, I will select AA (or UA) F. If I am already going to spend that much and I can spend the same or a little more to fly in true F on a European or Asian carrier, than I would not even consider Delta.
#84
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Posts: 8,411
You are missing my point. I am a loyal Delta flyer. All I am saying is that other US airlines that offer a true first class above biz class sometimes sell that F class for the same price as Delta sells BE, meaning that Delta is targeting customers for its BE product that have the option of flying F on another airline. This is why I am comparing AA F to DL J, because on a recent search they were being sold for the same price.
#85
Join Date: Sep 2009
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DL, on the other hand, even as a top tier elite will have you rot for days and refuse you to put you even on another SkyTeam flight that is wide open, if another Delta flight is coming a few days later, and would never even dream of putting you on a non-ST flight. (Granted, this is coming from limited experience, and others experience may vary.)
I think that here you must have mixed up the two. DL service recovery, while not worst in class, is very spotty and sometimes good, true, at other times (like when you really need it) horrendous. UA, however, treats their no-status customers better than DL treats its DMs and will promptly spend many $1000s to buy you a full F last minute fare (literaly last seat on the plane) if you so ask for it, even on an award ticket, even with no status - something that the extremely cheap DL would first let hell freeze over before it did.
#86
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RealHJ does make a good point. Why does DL have such an aversion to accommodating passengers on another airline when they cancel one of their flights? There was a member on FT who posted not too long ago that DL canceled their flight home from Mexico and told them they wouldn't be able to get on another DL flight for a few days. Why not put them on an Alaska or Aeromexico flight and get them home?
#87
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Trying to sell it as "Euro-Business" isn't going to get any real increase over a standard EC seat. Having the middle seat open doesn't do anything to resolve the overall cramped feeling. They also don't use the 747 for high density/beach markets... there are smaller config planes for that which already have les BE seats (767 subfleet)
Not sure why so many folks are having a hard time with 60Y on the upper deck... AF has done this with 34" pitch and standard seats... it's fine, like flying on a B737 or A320. OHB space is less of an issue on int'l since many people check bags, and you get extra storage at the windows.
#88
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Last edited by davetravels; Mar 22, 2014 at 6:47 pm
#89
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How so? In case of a cancelled award flight, even though there's countless options on UA, just give them a call and even as a nobody (no status) you will get put on the last full-fare F seat available on another airline (and earn miles, class bonus, full F fare bonus, etc.), if you so request, and plus you will also get some compensation in miles (for the "inconvenience" flying another airline direct flight in a better seat, vs. your original connecting UA flights).
DL, on the other hand, even as a top tier elite will have you rot for days and refuse you to put you even on another SkyTeam flight that is wide open, if another Delta flight is coming a few days later, and would never even dream of putting you on a non-ST flight. (Granted, this is coming from limited experience, and others experience may vary.)
I think that here you must have mixed up the two. DL service recovery, while not worst in class, is very spotty and sometimes good, true, at other times (like when you really need it) horrendous. UA, however, treats their no-status customers better than DL treats its DMs and will promptly spend many $1000s to buy you a full F last minute fare (literaly last seat on the plane) if you so ask for it, even on an award ticket, even with no status - something that the extremely cheap DL would first let hell freeze over before it did.
DL, on the other hand, even as a top tier elite will have you rot for days and refuse you to put you even on another SkyTeam flight that is wide open, if another Delta flight is coming a few days later, and would never even dream of putting you on a non-ST flight. (Granted, this is coming from limited experience, and others experience may vary.)
I think that here you must have mixed up the two. DL service recovery, while not worst in class, is very spotty and sometimes good, true, at other times (like when you really need it) horrendous. UA, however, treats their no-status customers better than DL treats its DMs and will promptly spend many $1000s to buy you a full F last minute fare (literaly last seat on the plane) if you so ask for it, even on an award ticket, even with no status - something that the extremely cheap DL would first let hell freeze over before it did.
#90
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Sad day. UD on the 747 is one of the most special J experiences one can ever have. Practically better than UD on the A380.