Rumor: 747 B/E seat reduction

Old Mar 22, 2014, 6:12 am
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If DL is indeed removing J seats from the UD and replacing those with E+ seats, then perhaps they could extend the J cabin on the MD past the 2L/2R doors. Kinda like what NW did with the 747-200s. J went past 2L/2R and Y started just before the wing area.

http://web.archive.org/web/200206020...0z/index.shtml

Something like this
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 7:06 am
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Originally Posted by JOSECONLSCREW28
If DL is indeed removing J seats from the UD and replacing those with E+ seats, then perhaps they could extend the J cabin on the MD past the 2L/2R doors. Kinda like what NW did with the 747-200s. J went past 2L/2R and Y started just before the wing area.

http://web.archive.org/web/200206020...0z/index.shtml

Something like this
I believe EC in the 744 currently starts right around where the leading edge of the wing meets the fuselage, if that's what you mean by "just before the wing area."
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 8:51 am
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Several rows of 3x3 EC on the UD of the 744's would feel cramped, would be surprised if DL were to do a 3x2 or 2x3 ala MD8x/9x/717 for the UD. Storage space would be a challenge as others have mentioned for the UD as well.

However "what if" DL is thinking a 3x3 for the UD with slim seats at EC pitch (or a bit more) and for some missions/routes, do similar to FI/ICE where the center is blocked and sell a 2x2 at a premium above regular coach, yet below discounted J. Then for other routes/missions (e.g. beach/high-density, charters, etc) sell the full 3x3 config. This could even be done where part say first 5 rows of the UD is sold as an enhanced EC (e.g. same service, just more room) with the remaining rows being 3x3 EC.

Impossible? Lets way to see what DL will actually do...
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 10:08 am
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Originally Posted by matthew64832
I don't really see AAs F as that much of a step up from AA J: slightly bigger TV and seat, same layout. Maybe the service is better, but is it that much better? AA even fails on their own website to really show any major differences between the two. Certainly nothing like SQ or EK F.

IMO DL J (specifically the new BE lie-flat seats) doesn't seem that far off from some of the lower end F products, at least in terms of hard product. Certainly they are towards the top of the heap when it comes to J. If it's the service you are after DL is probably not your best choice.

The difference might not be incredible, but if I am going to spend $6k and I have a choice to fly Delta BE or AA F, I will select AA (or UA) F. If I am already going to spend that much and I can spend the same or a little more to fly in true F on a European or Asian carrier, than I would not even consider Delta.
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 11:57 am
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Originally Posted by hooverer
However "what if" DL is thinking a 3x3 for the UD with slim seats at EC pitch (or a bit more) and for some missions/routes, do similar to FI/ICE where the center is blocked and sell a 2x2 at a premium above regular coach, yet below discounted J. Then for other routes/missions (e.g. beach/high-density, charters, etc) sell the full 3x3 config. This could even be done where part say first 5 rows of the UD is sold as an enhanced EC (e.g. same service, just more room) with the remaining rows being 3x3 EC.
Trying to sell it as "Euro-Business" isn't going to get any real increase over a standard EC seat. Having the middle seat open doesn't do anything to resolve the overall cramped feeling. They also don't use the 747 for high density/beach markets... there are smaller config planes for that which already have les BE seats (767 subfleet)
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 12:26 pm
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Originally Posted by rylan
Trying to sell it as "Euro-Business" isn't going to get any real increase over a standard EC seat. Having the middle seat open doesn't do anything to resolve the overall cramped feeling. They also don't use the 747 for high density/beach markets... there are smaller config planes for that which already have les BE seats (767 subfleet)
Having a middle seat open actually provides quite a bit of room, contributes to the perception of not being as packed in. Granted it may not do much in terms of a smaller cabin per say. However given the option of paying a full Y/B/M fare US-Europe for around $3K (how some were pricing out last week) and having a middle seat blocked for some people may be worth it vs. being packed into a standard EC config that get filled with the $1K fares for some routes, what bean counter wouldnt salivate over that scenario. Of course how many would be willing to pay for that premium on select routes is open for debate.

As for DL currently using 744s on beach/high-density markets you are correct, however given the speculation occuring in this forum, question is what or where might DL use a higher density 744 vs. current? Look at how NW used a subfleet of 742s for beach and other higher density routes.

Granted I dont think this rumored reconfig is targeted at the routes where NW used to deploy the "beach" 742s, likewise not a overlap for 767 or other specials. Rather my guess is to be put onto other routes, or simply use on some existing routes where the revenue mix is changing.
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 12:30 pm
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Sorry for not reading this thread as I have been in Palestine, but 73A on the 744 is my favorite seat for the whole of DL equipment. I have yet to get a newly configured 332/3 but would be more than sad to lost the 744 UP as I have been going out of my way to get on the 744s.
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 12:51 pm
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Originally Posted by jdrtravel
The difference might not be incredible, but if I am going to spend $6k and I have a choice to fly Delta BE or AA F, I will select AA (or UA) F. If I am already going to spend that much and I can spend the same or a little more to fly in true F on a European or Asian carrier, than I would not even consider Delta.
UA? you do realize that UA is the king of canceled international flights. Plus, there service recovery/customer service capabilities are worst in class. As for AA F Vs. DL J, not a fair comparison. However, AA J vs. DL J, DL wins hands down.
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 2:09 pm
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Originally Posted by DL2SXM
UA? you do realize that UA is the king of canceled international flights. Plus, there service recovery/customer service capabilities are worst in class. As for AA F Vs. DL J, not a fair comparison. However, AA J vs. DL J, DL wins hands down.
You are missing my point. I am a loyal Delta flyer. All I am saying is that other US airlines that offer a true first class above biz class sometimes sell that F class for the same price as Delta sells BE, meaning that Delta is targeting customers for its BE product that have the option of flying F on another airline. This is why I am comparing AA F to DL J, because on a recent search they were being sold for the same price.
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 4:03 pm
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Originally Posted by DL2SXM
UA? you do realize that UA is the king of canceled international flights. Plus, there service recovery/customer service capabilities are worst in class.
How so? In case of a cancelled award flight, even though there's countless options on UA, just give them a call and even as a nobody (no status) you will get put on the last full-fare F seat available on another airline (and earn miles, class bonus, full F fare bonus, etc.), if you so request, and plus you will also get some compensation in miles (for the "inconvenience" flying another airline direct flight in a better seat, vs. your original connecting UA flights).

DL, on the other hand, even as a top tier elite will have you rot for days and refuse you to put you even on another SkyTeam flight that is wide open, if another Delta flight is coming a few days later, and would never even dream of putting you on a non-ST flight. (Granted, this is coming from limited experience, and others experience may vary.)

I think that here you must have mixed up the two. DL service recovery, while not worst in class, is very spotty and sometimes good, true, at other times (like when you really need it) horrendous. UA, however, treats their no-status customers better than DL treats its DMs and will promptly spend many $1000s to buy you a full F last minute fare (literaly last seat on the plane) if you so ask for it, even on an award ticket, even with no status - something that the extremely cheap DL would first let hell freeze over before it did.
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 4:47 pm
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RealHJ does make a good point. Why does DL have such an aversion to accommodating passengers on another airline when they cancel one of their flights? There was a member on FT who posted not too long ago that DL canceled their flight home from Mexico and told them they wouldn't be able to get on another DL flight for a few days. Why not put them on an Alaska or Aeromexico flight and get them home?
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 6:19 pm
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Originally Posted by rylan
Trying to sell it as "Euro-Business" isn't going to get any real increase over a standard EC seat. Having the middle seat open doesn't do anything to resolve the overall cramped feeling. They also don't use the 747 for high density/beach markets... there are smaller config planes for that which already have les BE seats (767 subfleet)
I agree that selling Euro-Business explicitly isn't going to happen, but having the middle seat open is huge IMO... to the point where I'm now contemplating buying the seat next to me as the best option for TCON flights between cheapo Y and astronomic J. People who want this can buy it today, no need for DL to come up with a micro-cabin of blocked middles.

Not sure why so many folks are having a hard time with 60Y on the upper deck... AF has done this with 34" pitch and standard seats... it's fine, like flying on a B737 or A320. OHB space is less of an issue on int'l since many people check bags, and you get extra storage at the windows.
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 6:37 pm
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Originally Posted by bennos
OHB space is less of an issue on int'l since many people check bags. . . . .
. . . . but, Re: AF, Europeans are WAAAAAAY less scared to check bags than we are. Sometimes it really amazes me, standing at baggage belts for intra-European flights, when I see some really teeny-tiny bags coming up on the belts! Here, it would be unheard of to check bags that small! You know - - we tend to take the kitchen sink on board!


Last edited by davetravels; Mar 22, 2014 at 6:47 pm
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 7:52 pm
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Originally Posted by RealHJ
How so? In case of a cancelled award flight, even though there's countless options on UA, just give them a call and even as a nobody (no status) you will get put on the last full-fare F seat available on another airline (and earn miles, class bonus, full F fare bonus, etc.), if you so request, and plus you will also get some compensation in miles (for the "inconvenience" flying another airline direct flight in a better seat, vs. your original connecting UA flights).

DL, on the other hand, even as a top tier elite will have you rot for days and refuse you to put you even on another SkyTeam flight that is wide open, if another Delta flight is coming a few days later, and would never even dream of putting you on a non-ST flight. (Granted, this is coming from limited experience, and others experience may vary.)

I think that here you must have mixed up the two. DL service recovery, while not worst in class, is very spotty and sometimes good, true, at other times (like when you really need it) horrendous. UA, however, treats their no-status customers better than DL treats its DMs and will promptly spend many $1000s to buy you a full F last minute fare (literaly last seat on the plane) if you so ask for it, even on an award ticket, even with no status - something that the extremely cheap DL would first let hell freeze over before it did.
you do realize you just actually described the typical UA international flight cancellation? Just mosey on over to the UA forum to read all about it. There is actually an active thread on it. Do you also realize this exact scenario happened with a recent cancelled UA flight in India?
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 3:07 am
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Sad day. UD on the 747 is one of the most special J experiences one can ever have. Practically better than UD on the A380.
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