Dick Ginkowski

OK...what I don't quite entirely get (and I am not being disrespectful) is how your company allows this. Most places I know require that you shop for fares and get the best pricing. And for me 85% of my travel is based on my own business which means the money is out of my pocket so I also shop for the best deals. Don't understand overspending except in an emergency.

sterno24

With this thinking Boss...aren't you going to soon run out of airlines to "refrain from flying"?

2 down...4 more to go...(I included JetBlue...just because they are a nice airline)

baccarat_king

There are quite a few companies I am aware of, that require the purchasing of refundable and changeable tickets. I agree, seems crazy, since in the long run just paying change fees and fare difference seems to make sense (especially if it's only a small percentage of the time).

Those in business for themselves (that's me, so I book my own tickets); will never totally understand the method of the madness in some corporate travel departments. But, I'll also say, that when you are managing 5K to 50K traveling people (in a corporation); there is a big picture, and perhaps there has been some analysis with regard to this. We also don't always know about all the "kick-backs or rebates" that companies are getting (as well as lucrative corporate discounts).

And then, you have companies with rather decent policies for senior executives (and sometimes below); which allow for travel in business class on any flight above 5/6/7 hours. These flights often wind up in a rather high (full fare) business cabin. It's not unusual for there to still be heavily discounted economy seats, but all of the discounted business class seats are (long) gone.

Dick Ginkowski

Thanks. In my old job we bought a lot of refundable tickets because sometimes there would be cancellations and/or the need to rebook. We usually bought them out a bit so we finally woke up and decided to eat the unused ticket or pay the change fee. Cheaper for the taxpayers. (Side note: It was also not uncommon for us to send employees with credit cards into Best Buy to buy computer stuff off the shelf because the govt/corporate sales side often charged more than if we went to a store and bought it.)

baccarat_king

It think there is a lot out there we just don't know, vis-a-vis how some corporate travel departments work.

Also, I find, at least here on FlyerTalk in the Delta forum there is a rather myopic view of how the world operates with regard to higher revenue travel.

Just listening to others around me, living in an ex-Pat community; you start to observe a huge variety and variation of travel policy.

I always like to say, that there really aren't a lot of business class seats that need to be filled to make a market lucrative. Take markets like AMS-BOS, AMS-PDX, AMS-SEA; you just don't have much competition, and there are really only are 30-40 J seats available on a daily basis.

What I do know, is that I talk to a lot of people who travel quite a bit (often, much more than I do); and none of them have ever ventured onto FlyerTalk or spend any time optimizing their airline/hotel loyalty points earning. I've tried to give insight to a few people, but most just aren't that interested. They are just too busy to worry about it. I also find the same with gaming loyalty programs. I know people who wager crazy amounts and hardly get what they "really" deserve in comps and perks. Also, too busy to care.

us2

Two of the four carriers that comprise roughly 35-40% of domestic capacity have moved to a revenue based system for the accrual of redeemable miles (DL and WN). The idea that AA and UA won't follow suit isn't realistic. It's an oligopoly and the signaling couldn't be clearer. FF miles are carried on the books as a liability. This gives everyone a reason to limit those liabilities and clean up the balance sheet. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is the new reality. I'm still sitting on a pot of US miles that have been significantly devalued over the past few years. I should have redeemed them for a LH F award when I had the chance; instead, I stuck them away in the mattress while they lost value like the Reichsmark during the Weimar Republic.

veliger

I will come out ahead under the 2015 system and I have to buy the cheapest fare that fits reasonably into my travel time window. Since I can rarely book more than 4 or 5 days in advance, and mainly travel PWM to YYZ, SYR or ROC most of my travel will earn more under the new system. Since fares on these routes are rarely under $500 and often pushing $1000 it is easy to see how elites on short routes will come out ahead while still buying the cheapest fare their circumstances allow.

dknn

I will come out better with the new program. My company requires all travel to be booked on the lowest refundable fare, generally that means Y or B. For example on a common route I fly, ATL-BNA RT is $1568. Now as a DM, I would earn 17248 miles v. 1750 miles.

stonecrd

I said it a year ago and I still feel the same way. The good old days are gone get use to the new good old days. Last year I quite playing the FF game, now I just pick the flights by shortest duration and cheapest price. I've gone from DL Platinum to nobody on all airlines. I dumped my AMEX platinum this year too.

At the end of the day I was spending way too much energy on this and as benefits become less and less there was just no value any more. I'm happier now and pay no attention to status or miles anymore. I rather pay for my vacations than stay on the FF treadmill

pbarnette

While I still think there is some opportunity in the FF game, I agree with the gist of your post. Those that chase status as an end to itself are bound to be disappointed in today's environment. Those for whom status comes naturally still have some opportunities.

FlyerTom111

If Delta wants to be considered a premium product then the service needs to vastly improve and they need to upgrade many of their crappy planes to newer ones.

bubbashow

pb....why is it that when we disagree with the panic on the streets of FT, we are trolls? Does a altering viewpoint make us trolls? I am a DL DM, I fly them more than most of their customers. I think I am entitled to disagree with the prevailing thoughts that seem to have no business background without being a "troll".

phlwookie

Buying refundable used to be our policy as well, but that went away and stayed away with the 2002 recession, and I can no longer name a single client of mine that buys them by default either, something that's a complete opposite from 10-15 years ago. Now we only buy them if there is a reasonable expectation of multiple changes to the itinerary and/or trip cancellation. Otherwise, buying lowest cost and paying change fees has been a valid cost savings measure for us and our clients.

So my company, as a huge consulting firm, is one of AA/US, DL, and UA's top customers in the US by both volume and revenue, at least so says our travel department, though I have no reason to disbelieve them. We have volume discounts, many of which are significant especially for higher fare buckets and premium classes, but are still required to purchase the lowest available non-refundable fares. And this is where this may hurt DL - if the folks who might have been flying Delta who actually have a choice (ignore the fortress hubs), like those in NYC, where we have several large offices, direct spend to other carriers where lower fares won't have such a negative impact on their mileage earning.

FWIW, there's plenty of buzz along the lines of "why would I choose Delta if prices are similar since I'll earn so much less, and redemptions already suck" on our internal social media platform. If our folks materially reduce spend on DL, we'll get worsened discounts, and that could spiral as that will also impact the higher value tickets (e.g., NYC-LAX, intl biz class, etc) that DL wants to prioritize.

Who knows how this will play out. But I can see a scenario where at least for my company, DL's attempt to discourage lower fares from being purchased reduces the amount of expensive fares we buy from them. That said, if all the other carriers do something similar, this will be a moot point. But if one of them finds a way to either find a middle road or not go this path and scoop up business that DL might lose, it may represent a nice opportunity for them.