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Refundable ticket to help family to gate

Refundable ticket to help family to gate

Old Feb 17, 2014, 6:26 am
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by alee0729
It shouldn't matter whether it's contractor or accompanying someone unescorted. Whether the issuing attendant broke the rules intentionally or was not trained properly, but it's not policy in LGA in the Delta terminal.
Contractors, tour groups, guests of airport staff are not the same process as the in need passenger escort. In some documents it's referred to as a "demonstrated need" pass. It applies to children, elderly, and disabled. They are at the discretion of the airline but rarely refused. There is no need to do this in advance.

Argue all you want but the two are managed differently by the airline and TSA.
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 6:39 am
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by Bicostal
Contractors, tour groups, guests of airport staff are not the same process as the in need passenger escort. In some documents it's referred to as a "demonstrated need" pass. It applies to children, elderly, and disabled. They are at the discretion of the airline but rarely refused. There is no need to do this in advance.
The rules are inconsistently applied. Technically it's 1 set of rules... non-traveling members that are airside (not just in the SIDA) are the responsibility of the person signing for their access. While it is not required to go ahead of time, I am an advocate of better safe than sorry. Gate passes are not a right... they're a courtesy.

The policy should change, but as it stands today, it's a controlled access area.
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 7:21 am
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by alee0729
The rules are inconsistently applied. Technically it's 1 set of rules... non-traveling members that are airside (not just in the SIDA) are the responsibility of the person signing for their access. While it is not required to go ahead of time, I am an advocate of better safe than sorry. Gate passes are not a right... they're a courtesy.

The policy should change, but as it stands today, it's a controlled access area.
Technically it is NOT one set of rules. TSA and the airlines have a process to provide airside access to unticketed people to accompany passengers requiring assistance, as defined by age and disability.

As an example, in the case of Delta and United, unaccompanied minors are required to be escorted by an adult to the gate and the escort is required to remain at the gate until the plane departs. The same applies to arriving unaccompanied minors.

There is no requirement to do the paperwork for this until the day of the flight, specifically at checkin.

Employees have a system to access airside. Contractors have a system, as do guests and visitors. The system for passenger escort passes is not the same as used for the aforementioned access permissions. It's actually quite simple and is done at the ticket counter by the TA. That is not the case for the others.
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 8:26 am
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by Bicostal
Technically it is NOT one set of rules. TSA and the airlines have a process to provide airside access to unticketed people to accompany passengers requiring assistance, as defined by age and disability.
The policy is set by the airport authority and the TSA only. The airlines are just along for the ride -- they cannot make up their own rules. But we're splitting hairs here... it's still a privilege, not a right, to go airside.

Even with a full fare ticket, you are not guaranteed access. The airline, the TSA, and designated badged employees exercise the discretion.
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 8:45 am
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by alee0729
The policy is set by the airport authority and the TSA only. The airlines are just along for the ride -- they cannot make up their own rules. But we're splitting hairs here... it's still a privilege, not a right, to go airside.

Even with a full fare ticket, you are not guaranteed access. The airline, the TSA, and designated badged employees exercise the discretion.
No. TSA works with the airlines. The airport has nothing to do with the boarding passes being issued, nor the screening done at the airport.

No. They aren't making up rules. This is the established policy followed for gate access at every airport, with discretion given by the airline employees on who gets gate passes.

This isn't splitting hairs. Nobody ever said it was a right. You made that up as a distraction. Nobody cares if it's a right, a privilege or a reward for putting on big boy underwear correctly. The discussion was on getting access to the gate to assist the poster's family in getting to the gate. You gave very incorrect advice. It's important that anyone actually wanting a gate pass waste time going to the airport 72 hours ahead of time, only to be laughed at by the airline personnel while being told to come back the date the gate pass is needed. Rather than throwing out red herrings and giving more poor advice, you should buck up, apologize and correct yourself. Look up my old posts and you'll see I've done this several times. It's not about one person being right. It's about giving accurate advice, so that FT remains a site we can get the answers we need.

End of rant.
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 8:51 am
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by Bicostal
The day starts at midnight. The day ends at 11:59. It's a legal definition. But in lay terms, when the ball drops in Times Square its New Years at midnight, not 12:01.
I'm aware of the scientific answer; however, here is how Delta describes it.

Tickets/Cancellation:
Cancellation request must be made by midnight of the day after the eTicket is purchased or midnight of the departure date of the first flight, whichever comes first. Available only for eTickets purchased at the time of reservation through Delta ticket offices and airport ticket counters, Reservation Sales, or at delta.com.
If your interpretation is right, then it implies less than 24 hours if risk free cancelation time for tickets purchased well in advance of departure. If I buy a ticket at noon today for travel next month, then "midnight of the day after the eTicket is purchased" is technically only 12 hours away at the start of the next day. But we all know Delta gives until the end of the next day to cancel.

So, if we extend the same principle to the second clause, we get the interpretation I suggested originally: You have until the end of the day of departure to cancel. This phrase is limiting insofar as you buy ticket on the day of departure. In this case, you have only until the end of the day to cancel whereas the first clause would give you until the end of the following day.
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 9:10 am
  #67  
 
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Did the OP even name the airport in question? Lots of examples from different airports, but perhaps none are relevant to the OP's query if none are based on actual experience at the specific airport (i.e. it's known for never giving passes no-way, no-how, or it's known for agent discretion if the situation warrants).

For example, here are 2 recent examples on each side of the 'gate pass' issue being debated, specific to ATL:
1. I went w a friend to pick up her unaccompanied child. There was a bit of a paperwork mixup. It took a few minutes but the agent worked it out. Gate pass & necessary paperwork were issued. Of course it's in the airline's interest to be sure the child was escorted from the arrival gate.

2. Another friend has done some contract work at ATL and had to go through a fairly thorough advanced screening process. His work is outside of the secure areas that those w a BP or gate pass could access, and it was work being done for the airport, not a specific airline. Makes sense he would have to face more scrutiny due to the nature of his work and the access he would need 'behind the scenes' so to speak.

All that to say, none of us can make the OP's decision, he/she needs to figure out what's worth it to ensure the family makes a smooth transition through the airport. If the OP buys a ticket, hope it works out on the refund. If he/she goes with option of a gate pass on the day of travel and it's denied, perhaps just getting the family checked in will be enough to lighten the load on those traveling.

Last edited by PRWeezer; Feb 17, 2014 at 9:26 am
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 9:16 am
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by CJKatl
Rather than throwing out red herrings and giving more poor advice, you should buck up, apologize and correct yourself.
Just because you can regularly get a gate pass doesn't make it policy. The airport authority is the governing body here, not the airline. Believe what you want, but the airline may have their policies, but they have to abide by the rules of the governing authorities.
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 10:14 am
  #69  
 
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I am with others who say this whole game isdumb and would be easily resolved if TSA removed the silly and pointless ID check....

In the meantime, I hate battling a TA for a gate pass for whatever reason, so I happily save us all some time and do the refundable ticket thing. I feel no guilt as this product is legally sold on the open market. I am breaking no rules..

I have usually bought WN tix as they seem to be the cheapest and easiest to cancel. If I want PRE, I will do AA or DL.
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 10:47 am
  #70  
 
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Originally Posted by alee0729
The policy is set by the airport authority and the TSA only. The airlines are just along for the ride -- they cannot make up their own rules. But we're splitting hairs here... it's still a privilege, not a right, to go airside.

Even with a full fare ticket, you are not guaranteed access. The airline, the TSA, and designated badged employees exercise the discretion.
The policy is set by mutual agreement between the airlines and the TSA. Access to airside for unaccompanied minors is the policy agreed to - not only is it a "nice to have" it is also REQUIRED per the UM procedures.

It is not a 72 hour window, it is not a separate trip to the airport, and it is not at the discretion of the employee. As for accompanying elderly and disabled, it is also a consistent policy established by the airlines and the TSA.

How do you think Precheck got started?

Please don't confuse less experienced travelers by providing misinformation.
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 11:18 am
  #71  
 
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Originally Posted by DaDaDan
I'm aware of the scientific answer; however, here is how Delta describes it.

If your interpretation is right, then it implies less than 24 hours if risk free cancelation time for tickets purchased well in advance of departure. If I buy a ticket at noon today for travel next month, then "midnight of the day after the eTicket is purchased" is technically only 12 hours away at the start of the next day. But we all know Delta gives until the end of the next day to cancel.

So, if we extend the same principle to the second clause, we get the interpretation I suggested originally: You have until the end of the day of departure to cancel. This phrase is limiting insofar as you buy ticket on the day of departure. In this case, you have only until the end of the day to cancel whereas the first clause would give you until the end of the following day.
BY MIDNIGHT of the day after. That means that 11:59:59 on the day after is fine - midnight is not. Not the most exquisite verbiage, but clear enough.

By the end of the next day....that's 11:59:59, not 12:00 midnight. Days START at midnight.

How well does Delta do in enforcing the policy for tickets purchased on the day of departure is a different story. Technically, they are not required o refund any ticket purchased less than 7 days prior to departure but have opted to create a policy that allows it inside that time frame with the conditional that it be done by the end of the next day - or before the beginning of the travel day.

This isn't that tough to understand....
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 11:25 am
  #72  
 
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Originally Posted by Bicostal
The policy is set by mutual agreement between the airlines and the TSA. Access to airside for unaccompanied minors is the policy agreed to - not only is it a "nice to have" it is also REQUIRED per the UM procedures.
Required to have a procedure, yes. But how it's handled is not always a gate pass.

Delta states a gate pass, but is specified specifically for special travel needs with children only (http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...children.html#). There is no obligation to provide you with a gate pass just because you want to meet a non-elderly, non-minor friend.

United is more explicit (http://www.united.com/web/en-us/cont...ors/faq.aspx):
"You will receive a security checkpoint pass which will permit you to pass through security with your child. It is then necessary for you to wait at the gate until the time of departure. Please note that due to security restrictions at some airports you may not be permitted to enter the gate area. In such a case, your child will be escorted by a United representative".

American is also very explicit (https://www.aa.com/i18n/disclaimers/...hecklist.jsp):
"At the airport you may be required to release your child upon check in at the ticket counter. In these instances, an American Airlines representative will escort your child to the departure gate and your child will remain under the supervision of an American Airlines representative until the flight departs."

Again, not you, not the airline, not the TSA... the airport authority decides if a gate pass can be issued, and the airline and the TSA decide whether they want to honor access to the accompanying individual if one were to be issued.

There is a procedure in place to manage all these things. It's not misinformation. It's stated clearly for UA and AA that airport dependent rules may result in an airline child escort vs. a gate pass. If anything, I'm willing to bet Delta is required to defer to the airport's rules and provide accompanying agents in some airports.

Your experience may not mirror this, and that's fine. But it's pure DYKWIA behavior to assume that anyone can waltz into an airport and demand a gate pass as their given right.
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 12:29 pm
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by Bicostal
BY MIDNIGHT of the day after. That means that 11:59:59 on the day after is fine - midnight is not. Not the most exquisite verbiage, but clear enough.
As you've been saying all along, the midnight that occurs "on the day after" is the midnight at the beginning of the day. We can all agree that technically, every day's midnight occurs at the beginning of the day, but this doesn't appear to be Delta's interpretation.

If we interpret...

by midnight of the day after the eTicket is purchased
To mean "by the end of" the day after purchase. Then we must interpret...

or midnight of the departure date of the first flight
To mean "by the end of" the day of departure of the first flight.
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Old Dec 24, 2019, 9:56 am
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by TheRoadie
Previous discussion about how to do this "ethically" involved looking for not-full flights that they would sell nine seats in coach. Gaming the FC cabin nowadays would be a big no-no.

I don't think it's even the airline's ultimate fault. It's the greedy TSA who don't want to staff up for visitors they can't charge a "security fee". As if the excess fees they pocket isn't enough for connecting flights during which you don't go through the checkpoint except at the origin. TSA leans on the airlines to reduce the work they do for freeloading airside visitors.

//

Perhaps the TSA should just start selling gate passes for $20 (or whatever price keeps the take down to a dull roar so it doesn't clog up security) to anyone who already has pre-check, global entry, etc (any of the pre-cleared folks who won't present "interesting" issues as a walk-up).
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Old Dec 27, 2019, 12:38 pm
  #75  
 
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waiting 8 years to bump a 6 year old thread is pretty impressive
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