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-   -   NRSA vs NRSP: how does it work? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1528582-nrsa-vs-nrsp-how-does-work.html)

FlyDeltaJets87 Dec 7, 2013 1:02 pm


Originally Posted by ThrowDownYourLeavyScreens (Post 21922021)
I'm not sure what you mean.

Let's say that a DL pilot is based in ATL but lives in CLT. He/she is rated on the 757 and 767 but not the A320 family or the MD/DC9 family. That means that he cannot fly CLT-ATL as the pilot (since DL does not serve CLT with 757's or 767's for regular revenue operations -- they do as charters for the Panthers, Bobcats, etc., however). How does that pilot get to ATL to begin his/her shift, assuming that a 4-hour drive to Hartsfield is out of the question? Does that pilot fly NRPS, or something else?

They fly NRSA. It's up to the crew member to ensure they get to their crew duty station in time for their shift if they choose to live in a city other than their crew base.

Even if the pilot living in CLT was DC-9/A320/MD-80 rated most "shifts" (probably not the best term to use - the exact term is slipping my mind at the moment) wouldn't start in an outstation like CLT but would start at ATL, so that crew member would still have to commute down to ATL to begin their trip, even if they were flying right back to CLT.

If a crew member is being repositioned by the company (deadheading), they I believe they fly as Non-Revenue Positive Space (For example, scheduling puts an ATL based pilot on a DTW-XXX trip. The company has to position the pilot from ATL to DTW, which will be done as "Positive Space").

NotHamSarnie Dec 7, 2013 1:25 pm


Originally Posted by FlyDeltaJets87 (Post 21922080)
They fly NRSA. It's up to the crew member to ensure they get to their crew duty station in time for their shift if they choose to live in a city other than their crew base.

Even if the pilot living in CLT was DC-9/A320/MD-80 rated most "shifts" (probably not the best term to use - the exact term is slipping my mind at the moment) wouldn't start in an outstation like CLT but would start at ATL, so that crew member would still have to commute down to ATL to begin their trip, even if they were flying right back to CLT.

If a crew member is being repositioned by the company (deadheading), they I believe they fly as Non-Revenue Positive Space (For example, scheduling puts an ATL based pilot on a DTW-XXX trip. The company has to position the pilot from ATL to DTW, which will be done as "Positive Space").

Presumably Positive Space means seats exist on the flight, right? Somebody wouldn't be bumped to accommodate them but they would go ahead of anybody on Standby. How is it decided whether it is Positive Space in F/BE or Y? Does this depend on the status (employment rather than FF) of the person or on the availability on the flight or both?

FlyDeltaJets87 Dec 7, 2013 1:44 pm


Originally Posted by NotHamSarnie (Post 21922179)
Presumably Positive Space means seats exist on the flight, right? Somebody wouldn't be bumped to accommodate them but they would go ahead of anybody on Standby. How is it decided whether it is Positive Space in F/BE or Y? Does this depend on the status (employment rather than FF) of the person or on the availability on the flight or both?

Actually revenue passengers can be bumped for Non-Rev Positive Space, or at least on AA they can. That's how I got a VDB with AA a couple years ago. A deadheading pilot was put on the route I was flying, putting the flight in an oversell situation. I took the bump offer and got a $400 voucher out of it. Not sure if DL would do the same - maybe company policy is different. Remember a few months ago there was the article that Richard Anderson took a jump seat so a revenue passenger could keep their seat and not be bumped off. Granted that's RA who would have had the priority to keep the seat and not a regular operations employee.

DavidDTW Dec 7, 2013 1:49 pm

If a positive space non-rev creates an overbooked/oversold situation, then the GA will solicit for volunteers. Employees traveling as PS are usually considered "must-ride" passengers.

SuperG1955 Dec 7, 2013 2:02 pm

Doesn't have to be a pilot or exec. If an employee is scheduled for company business such a training class in another city, they will travel Positive Space (not necessarily in F). Another example would be that an employee was sent to a station to handle a company emergency that couldn't be handled locally such as an advanced MX issue that prevented an aircraft from flying, even in ferry status. That person would be Positive Space for return to their base whenever they completed their job at the remote space

HDQDD Dec 7, 2013 2:05 pm


Originally Posted by NotHamSarnie (Post 21922179)
Presumably Positive Space means seats exist on the flight, right? Somebody wouldn't be bumped to accommodate them but they would go ahead of anybody on Standby. How is it decided whether it is Positive Space in F/BE or Y? Does this depend on the status (employment rather than FF) of the person or on the availability on the flight or both?

I used to fly PS often in my former life. I also had the ability to book myself and others PS for COBUS (COmpany BUSiness). I could also OB (overbook) the flight past it's inventory limits if I had too. I was not allowed to book in F on a three cabin aircraft, but I was allowed to book in business class and I was put on the upgrade list (for F) ahead of pax using status/miles. Others were only allowed to book PS for coach, but they were also upgradable after all revenue pax (but before gratis FF upgrades).

There's a very complicated matrix of priorities when it comes to passenger priority and rarely will an average pax even encounter it. The company I worked for had at least 30 different priorities for different categories. IIRC, the top priority was dead-heading crew for an AOG flight. This was even higher than passengers on a full F or Y fare. So yes, they would take VDB/IDB's to accommodate a dead-heading crew (to save another flight). Pilots usually will take the cockpit jumpseat when it's available so impact to other pax is minimized. But in some cases the crew is too big (pilots and F/A's) to all be in jumpseats.

I believe pax traveling on an award ticket in F was the highest "general pax" category. I was surprised it was ahead of paid F/Y, but it was.

As someone else mentioned, crew are not NRPS for travel to their domiciles. They are NRSA. However, if a crew is in an outstation and their plane goes on long maintenance, they may be flown out NRPS to continue their trip (or pick up another one).

motytrah Dec 7, 2013 2:08 pm


Originally Posted by FlyDeltaJets87 (Post 21922080)
They fly NRSA. It's up to the crew member to ensure they get to their crew duty station in time for their shift if they choose to live in a city other than their crew base.

Even if the pilot living in CLT was DC-9/A320/MD-80 rated most "shifts" (probably not the best term to use - the exact term is slipping my mind at the moment) wouldn't start in an outstation like CLT but would start at ATL, so that crew member would still have to commute down to ATL to begin their trip, even if they were flying right back to CLT.

If a crew member is being repositioned by the company (deadheading), they I believe they fly as Non-Revenue Positive Space (For example, scheduling puts an ATL based pilot on a DTW-XXX trip. The company has to position the pilot from ATL to DTW, which will be done as "Positive Space").

That is right on. In the Ask a Delta Pilot thread I recall a discussion on "commuting" being NRSA and it's the employees fault if they miss the call time.

Most airlines won't let you commute from any old station though. It needs to be realistic. For example there's a contingent of AA folks ex MSP because it's considered an extension base for ORD because of the short flight duration and high frequency.

SamOF Dec 7, 2013 2:16 pm


Originally Posted by motytrah (Post 21922354)
For example there's a contingent of AA folks ex MSP because it's considered an extension base for ORD because of the short flight duration and high frequency.

That makes sense—presumably the employees could even standby on DL or UA if the AA flights are full.

DaDaDan Dec 7, 2013 2:59 pm

Returning to a point in the OP that doesn't seem to have been fully closed: My understanding is that the NRPS passenger would have a confirmed seat on the flight. They would not be on the standby list at all.

PRWeezer Dec 7, 2013 3:06 pm


Originally Posted by DaDaDan (Post 21922552)
Returning to a point in the OP that doesn't seem to have been fully closed: My understanding is that the NRPS passenger would have a confirmed seat on the flight. They would not be on the standby list at all.

Correct. Positive space = confirmed seat. Some NRPS pax can confirm in F prior to flight, which sounds like what happened in the OP's case. Others may be confirmed in coach but can standby for an upgrade (PSUP) & would appear after Medallions on the list.

jdrtravel Dec 7, 2013 3:11 pm

I am curious about which employees are entitled to fly PS in first/BE class? Are there executives who are always permitted to, even for personal travel, as a part of exec. compensation?

NotHamSarnie Dec 7, 2013 3:31 pm


Originally Posted by HDQDD (Post 21922342)
I used to fly PS often in my former life. I also had the ability to book myself and others PS for COBUS (COmpany BUSiness). I could also OB (overbook) the flight past it's inventory limits if I had too. I was not allowed to book in F on a three cabin aircraft, but I was allowed to book in business class and I was put on the upgrade list (for F) ahead of pax using status/miles. Others were only allowed to book PS for coach, but they were also upgradable after all revenue pax (but before gratis FF upgrades).

There's a very complicated matrix of priorities when it comes to passenger priority and rarely will an average pax even encounter it. The company I worked for had at least 30 different priorities for different categories. IIRC, the top priority was dead-heading crew for an AOG flight. This was even higher than passengers on a full F or Y fare. So yes, they would take VDB/IDB's to accommodate a dead-heading crew (to save another flight). Pilots usually will take the cockpit jumpseat when it's available so impact to other pax is minimized. But in some cases the crew is too big (pilots and F/A's) to all be in jumpseats.

I believe pax traveling on an award ticket in F was the highest "general pax" category. I was surprised it was ahead of paid F/Y, but it was.

As someone else mentioned, crew are not NRPS for travel to their domiciles. They are NRSA. However, if a crew is in an outstation and their plane goes on long maintenance, they may be flown out NRPS to continue their trip (or pick up another one).

Thank you, very informative. Interesting about award F trumping paid F.

I suspect the NRPS next to me was confirmed BE before the gate, especially because of the very transparent GA process that asked the 4 top likely UGs to hang back.

UnitedFlyGuy Dec 7, 2013 3:59 pm

NRSA = Non Revenue Space Available. "Nonrev" for short. Standby and waiting for a seat, usually used by airline employees.

NRPS = Non Revenue Positive Space. Various people can have this (Airline corporate members, employees on business, employees flying for an emergency, death in the family, etc.)

NRPS is given and the seat(s) are taken out of the inventory. Whether the NRPS PAX is in F/C/Y is determined by many factors. Either way, once they list a positive space PAX, that seat is gone. If they are F, they aren't upgraded at the gate because they already have a seat.

Everything is different across all airlines and the situation at hand but that's how it works generally.

Starblazer Dec 7, 2013 4:18 pm


Originally Posted by UnitedFlyGuy (Post 21922817)
NRPS = Non Revenue Positive Space. Various people can have this (Airline corporate members, employees on business, employees flying for an emergency, death in the family, etc.)

All right except the death in the family. Those people fly NRSA, standby code S1A.

Pharaoh Dec 7, 2013 4:21 pm

Doesn't even need to be an employee for NRPS. For a number of years I sold a heck of a lot of air tickets for an airline (not DL) and was rewarded with NRPS flights once or twice a year. Business class. The only booking restriction was that the booking could only be made within 30 days of travel. Other than that the T&Cs were that of a full fare J.


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