"Changes coming next Spring"
 

Speaking to a regular FA I see and she mentioned some changes are coming next Spring "for a better first class experience"

She wouldn't say too much and I didn't dig but I did state my desire for unlimited UG's to be K+ only and she smiled.

MQD and potential K+ only UG's. Times are a changing, for the better IMHO.

Oh, jeez. You ascertained this all from a "smile". The vast majority of FA's probably don't even know what a 'K' fare is (let alone would they be provided knowledge about future changes in the domestic upgrade program). Sorry, but I'll take your speculation with a large grain of salt.

Well, of course she couldn't say anything! How could you possibly expect a regular FA to know something about the fancy, special, top secret cabin on the other side of the curtain?

What-da-heck is a "REGULAR" flight attendant?

Completely agree. The average FA has no clue what is going on in this area. They would be one of the last to know. And, I guess why would they need to know. It has nothing to do with their area of the company.

Amen.

Delta once offered upgrades only on K+ and it worked for them for a long time but it would put them at a major competitive disadvantage today and that is the only reason that it changed from before.

One FA told me Richard was retiring and they were bringing in mersk862 to run the company.

Maybe they're actually getting some actual decent fri**'in BEER again.

Blue Moon? I can actually drink that stuff - - it is like being in a kind of beer holding pattern before an actual beer landing.

Heineken? Don't get me started.

Hmmmmm . . . . . And how would that work out for the average FlyerTalker???

:)

Nothing lasts forever.

Not this .... again...

Probably a short boost

As a Diamond why would you care? No lower medallion on anything less than a K fare will ever be above you on an UG list, and if you want to buy K fares to feel better about your upgrade, you can. Am I missing something?

So, I guess we're talkin' somewhere in between . . . .

Mersk passing out a few free Woodford drink coupons, and . . . .

SWUs being good on V fares???

:D

Well, hypothetically, if a DM purchases a nearly last minute ticket, and other DMs, PMs & GMs have already been UG'd on <K fares, those seats wouldn't be available for the last minute DM purchase.

I have a good friend who is a long term (30+ years) FA on NW/DL and I'd be surprised if she knew what kind of airplane she was on

For some people having something isn't nearly as satisfying unless they can also deny it to others and lord that fact over the denied. Certainly you know the posters of whom I speak?

Best news on FT in a long time! Congrats to mersk862!

I actually heard rumors of this as well. As a Double Diamond DYKWIA who mostly flies on YBM fares I would like this so I could make myself feel better and more elite by watching the other Diamond kettle walk to the back for their ham sandwich.

If they limited upgrades to K+, I'm finding another airline to fly. They already have the upgrade system favor flyers in higher classes by ordering the upgrade list in order of class after status (which is fair). I could see DL going with a combination of fare+status and having a score for the combination so a GM buying a B fare has priority over a PM on a V fare. But, to limit it to K+ would reward poor planning instead of those who can book a fair amount of time in advance.

I would think that a better first class experience would mean more edible food and better drinks for those who partake.

For better or worse, DL doesn't want to reward those who can book in advance, nor does it really care about how many other times you've already flown DL this year. I can easily see them either expanding the fare classes for higher upgrade priority beyond just Y, similar to what UA did, or finding some other way of significantly prioritizing fare class/ticket value over status. I don't think they'll eliminate upgrades for certain fare classes, as it's a great marketing ploy to offer "unlimited complimentary Medallion upgrades" to even your lowliest elites... kind of like how with the Amex, you get "Zone 1" boarding even though Zone 1 is the fourth group of pax to board the plane.

Booking in advance gives DL the money in advance and a better chance of having to change the fare, so there are some gains in revenue.

But, I think you're right, they can add B fares to instant upgrades like UA or come up with a way of coming up with a priority based on $$ and status combined as opposed to looking at status first and then fare and then time of booking.

Then she's not a very good FA. FAs and pilots know more than people think. A pilot told me about the SEA-HKG route more than a year in advance and a SC agent told me about it a month in advance. Things leak, especially internally.

Because DL front line employees are always in the know...

Not quite sure how you get from "a better first class experience" to requiring K+ to upgrade. A bit illogical to me.

What she said would point to a better product, which would be a good thing. I don't think the FAs would interpret a stricter upgrade policy as a "better first class experience."

Having said that, things were much better when K+ was required. The other part of the policy then was that the upgrade could be locked in at the time of booking for Platinum members. Delta got a revenue premium and the Platinum flyer had some degree of upgrade certainty when selecting flights.

All Delta needed to do to soften that policy and compete with other carriers, without giving away the store, was to allow upgrades at the gate from any fare but not allow any from fares less than K in advance. Instead, for those who weren't around then, they tried to require an upgrade instrument from everyone for any upgrade (i.e., 800 mile segment upgrades IIRC), and when that system was obviously going to cause revolt, they caved at the last minute and went with the unlimited upgrades for every elite from any fare.

And things have been messy ever since. IMO.

Geez, someone makes a seemingly innocuous comment about a wishful change to the upgrade rules and it suddenly becomes the primary topic of the thread. The "change" is probably that the glassware in Business/First will be a slightly different shape. This sort of thing can be fun to watch.

Limiting upgrades to certain fare classes does nothing to improve the 'first class experience'. The cabin will still be full from FCM or other elites on high fares. Making a better experience would involve improvements to the hard and soft product up front, not limiting how you can get in there.

That means they're probably moving to Gordon's for all in-flight spirits. "Better" doesn't necessarily mean better for the customer, it could mean better for DL's bottom line....

Yes and no...pilots can be just as misinformed, and I'm sure DL internally has the same facts and rumors as in any other company. Way before the Arab Spring a pilot told me that they would be setting up a BEY station "within the next month or so"...

Yes, FT seems to attract this crowd... Though we have heard from at least two of the regulars, I feel this thread is still not quite complete :D

. . . . or requiring a necktie and no sneakers in F! :D

. . . . leaves me out! :D

And as a diamond on an L fare you're OK with a FO on a K fare trumping you for the UG?

How about SWU's actually being available when you buy a B fare?

K+ only at the 5 day window for DM/PM, etc would make sense. All else BFUG only to allow for FCM and last minute DM/PM/GM/FO buying really expensive Y/B/M etc. Now that would be fairer.

Why should I as a DM get upgraded 5 days out on a VLUT fare, when there is a PM who books last minute on a Y fare? I think there has to be an algorithim out there that can get a fairer metric, that allows for FCM and above all GENERATES EXTRA REVENUE for DL.

I think I'd look ridiculous wearing a necktie and dress shoes with my sweatpants and t-shirt.

I call shenanigans. :cool:

Yes, we are still lacking the B.S. :)

David

There already is... haven't you noticed that advance upgrades are much much much less available than they used to be on many routes? In particular, those routes that get a lot of last minute high bucket purchases and FCM have little to no advance upgrades.

Honestly I can't believe some people whining and wanting upgrades to be more limited. Don't you see where this is going? Sure... start with XVE, then LUT, then before you know it, its no upgrades for FOs, then GM only on M+ and it keeps getting worse.

To be truthful, I had not noticed but have not taken a DL flight since September 6th - and IIRC I was not upgraded 5 days out - so you could be correct.

Voice of reason and wisdom....

For practicall purposes, the advance UG is dead and future changes will merely bring that about in seemingly more "honest" fashion.

But the tactics don't change - DL Corp loves "them agains us" and continues to nurture that "social leverage" to their advantage....

^ ^ I just bought a G fare ticket (FCM) to LAX, and it was only tens of dollars more than a K fare. Although there were lots of flights with the K fare, and only a handful with the low G fare.

David

I'm all for WFBF and usually get to because of a contract I'm on, but I would buy more K+ and save money if it wasn't such a crap shoot for UG's ATL-LAX or LAX-JFK.

The herd will be thinned boys and girls. No going back now IMO.

A better FC experience for me would be better food on DL. AA is far superior in this area and DL could spend more on the FC "experience" if they were not giving away such a huge amount of FC seats for free.

The more something is given without cost to the user the more it is devalued.