SkyMiles Award levels Renamed

Old Sep 27, 13, 7:43 am
  #91  
fti
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MN
Programs: Lots of programs, dirt on all of them!
Posts: 11,901
Originally Posted by tmontemb View Post
FWIW, (and I am not sure with Delta) but a lot of the social media help and representation is sourced to outside firms specializing in these tactics. Including but not limited to UA events as well. Could be a testament to differences in quality of representation.

I know SPG used Accenture to improve their app/social media/website representation, so it wouldn't be so farfetched that they have externals running the show as well. The majority of social media response is out sourced to firms specializing in this and PR.
I am sure DL would never pay for that
fti is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 8:04 am
  #92  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: DL PM, UA Prem Plat (*G), MR Plat, HH Gold, *wood Gold
Posts: 1,040
Originally Posted by GRALISTAIR View Post
Quote:





Originally Posted by keloutwest


I have to believe that they're going to improve award availability sometime soon. They are ABSOLUTELY losing business because of how few seats they have, both on the credit card side and on the flying side.




Tongue in cheek right? As we all know they are at record load factors. I like your humor.
Actually I'm dead serious. Load factors may be at a record, but that says nothing about what potential there is for Delta should they introduce a competitive redemption program. I went with Chase instead of Amex because I realized that every time I wanted to fly somewhere free, DL didn't have low (i mean Saver)available whereas UA did. I fly paid DL for the better experience and maintain my plat status only, but use my CC points and fly UA or *A.
keloutwest is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 8:21 am
  #93  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
Originally Posted by pbarnette View Post
Illogical nonsense.



Illogical nonsense.

Unless you are the single most unlucky person in the world, then you cannot possibly pay more over any significant span of time to stay "loyal". If DL sold tickets consistently for more than the competition, then they would either never fill the plane or have a product that even non-elites will pay a premium for. Either way, your "loyalty" can't possibly drive more revenue.
Let's say there is a DL elite.
AA has a ticket for $299 rt
DL has a ticket for $349 rt
Both the tickets are to the same destination
This elite buys the $349 ticket for elite benefits and a potential UG to F, rather than saving the $50 and flying on AA (despite a 17% difference in the two prices.)
Therefore, the $50 was derived from our loyalty to DL rather than price (for which there was a cheaper option.)
AA_EXP09 is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 8:46 am
  #94  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York, western US
Programs: DM/2MM
Posts: 3,968
Originally Posted by AA_EXP09 View Post
Let's say there is a DL elite.
AA has a ticket for $299 rt
DL has a ticket for $349 rt
Both the tickets are to the same destination
This elite buys the $349 ticket for elite benefits and a potential UG to F, rather than saving the $50 and flying on AA (despite a 17% difference in the two prices.)
Therefore, the $50 was derived from our loyalty to DL rather than price (for which there was a cheaper option.)
I have experienced this often, and have indeed bought the more expensive DL ticket. Folks I know do the same. It seems that for leisure travel, we'll accept a larger fare difference than for business travel, but that's mostly because the corporate travel policies will "allow" only small price differences (even if the official policy is lowest price).

Here's an example for a trip to ORD I'm considering:

American Airlines $340 UNITED $342 US Airways $368 Delta $403

These are for flights pretty much at the same time. (Well, Spirit is a lot less but I'm not flying them)

Last edited by TrojanTraveler; Sep 27, 13 at 8:52 am
TrojanTraveler is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 8:47 am
  #95  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bye Delta
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold, MR Gold, Nat'l Exec Elite, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 15,220
Originally Posted by AA_EXP09 View Post
Let's say there is a DL elite.
AA has a ticket for $299 rt
DL has a ticket for $349 rt
Both the tickets are to the same destination
This elite buys the $349 ticket for elite benefits and a potential UG to F, rather than saving the $50 and flying on AA (despite a 17% difference in the two prices.)
Therefore, the $50 was derived from our loyalty to DL rather than price (for which there was a cheaper option.)
Using that logic, one could argue DL derived $349 from loyalty, as if it weren't for that loyalty, the ticket would have been booked on AA = $0 for DL.
javabytes is online now  
Old Sep 27, 13, 9:15 am
  #96  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
Originally Posted by keloutwest View Post
Actually I'm dead serious. Load factors may be at a record, but that says nothing about what potential there is for Delta should they introduce a competitive redemption program. I went with Chase instead of Amex because I realized that every time I wanted to fly somewhere free, DL didn't have low (i mean Saver)available whereas UA did. I fly paid DL for the better experience and maintain my plat status only, but use my CC points and fly UA or *A.
So DL is losing the business of flying passengers for free? That would seem to be intentional, no?
pbarnette is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 9:30 am
  #97  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Indianapolis
Programs: DL DM, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat
Posts: 600
Always factor in bag costs if you must check. Sometimes it is unavoidable! But those can immediately negate a $50 fare difference.
tmontemb is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 9:34 am
  #98  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
Originally Posted by AA_EXP09 View Post
Let's say there is a DL elite.
AA has a ticket for $299 rt
DL has a ticket for $349 rt
Both the tickets are to the same destination
This elite buys the $349 ticket for elite benefits and a potential UG to F, rather than saving the $50 and flying on AA (despite a 17% difference in the two prices.)
Therefore, the $50 was derived from our loyalty to DL rather than price (for which there was a cheaper option.)
But that doesn't last over any meaningful length of time.

If DL consistently priced their ticket at $349, then no non-elite would ever buy the DL ticket, unless DL offered $50 extra value to the non-elite. Barring filling the entire plane with elites, your loads would suffer and DL would have to lower their price. Of course, if DL fills the entire plane with elites, then the value of the elite benefits (priority baggage, check-in, and boarding, not to mention upgrades) begins to approach zero and elites will defect.

You simply can't consistently charge elites more than you charge non-elites. Period.
pbarnette is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 10:48 am
  #99  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: MEL
Programs: VA-PLT, DL-GM, QF-GLD, UA-ex1K, AA-exPLT, HH-DM, IHG-PLT, MR-GLD
Posts: 7,769
Originally Posted by javabytes View Post
Well that's ominous...

Also, give a nice bonus to the marketing MBA who figured out how to condition people to pay Medium levels by calling it "Standard" and thus implying this is the price level to be expected for most award travel.
United and AA have called their 50k awards 'Standard' for years. Hard to fault that terminology.
CPMaverick is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 11:01 am
  #100  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ATL
Programs: Bonvoy Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Gold, AA PLT, UA Silver, former DL DM
Posts: 1,952
Originally Posted by pbarnette View Post
But that doesn't last over any meaningful length of time.

If DL consistently priced their ticket at $349, then no non-elite would ever buy the DL ticket, unless DL offered $50 extra value to the non-elite. Barring filling the entire plane with elites, your loads would suffer and DL would have to lower their price.
Your post assumes perfect competition. Of course that assumption is hardly true in this industry. Thus the term "hub captive".
lamont2718 is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 11:06 am
  #101  
fti
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MN
Programs: Lots of programs, dirt on all of them!
Posts: 11,901
Originally Posted by lamont2718 View Post
Your post assumes perfect competition. Of course that assumption is hardly true in this industry. Thus the term "hub captive".
Actually that poster makes many assumptions, 99.99% of which are biased to DL, an airline that in his eyes can do no wrong
fti is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 11:13 am
  #102  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BOS
Programs: DL PM, Hertz Gold Plus, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,050
Originally Posted by tmontemb View Post
Always factor in bag costs if you must check. Sometimes it is unavoidable! But those can immediately negate a $50 fare difference.
I always use this as a bargaining chip when booking travel for work, especially for long trips or trips for which I am required to bring something large with me. I have pretty good results; we don't use a prescribed travel portal.
eturowski is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 12:08 pm
  #103  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bye Delta
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold, MR Gold, Nat'l Exec Elite, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 15,220
Originally Posted by CPMaverick View Post
United and AA have called their 50k awards 'Standard' for years. Hard to fault that terminology.
Except AA doesn't.
javabytes is online now  
Old Sep 27, 13, 12:23 pm
  #104  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
Originally Posted by lamont2718 View Post
Your post assumes perfect competition. Of course that assumption is hardly true in this industry. Thus the term "hub captive".
I was responding to folks that were saying that loyalty causes people to pay more for the same product. A nonstop is not the same product as a connection. Most of the "hub captive" premium can be much more readily ascribed to that difference than any gains from loyalty.

I am no more assuming perfect competition than are the folks asserting that loyalty = higher prices. The specific example I responded to certainly assumes that the products are identical.

Might I ask what sort of causal models you might suggest that would adequately explain the impact of differences in loyalty on spending without controlling for things like product or schedule? Might I also ask whether you believe that non-elites are also more "loyal"? If not, then how would an airline ever be able to price their product such that non-elites don't pay a loyalty premium, but elites do?
pbarnette is offline  
Old Sep 27, 13, 1:58 pm
  #105  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,079
I am sure the Delta fanboys will give me condescending lectures on my lack of understanding of the term, but I think the feeling of many us is that the "goodwill" of the Delta brand is being eroded by their recent and continuing practices. That goodwill in large part derives from the reputation and brand loyalty engendered in its longterm customers over many years by past management. I cannot argue with how they choose to run their business. I can only vote with my feet and my dollars, and that only to a limited extent, living in a hub and with US airline industry being an oligopoly.
flyerslc is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: