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-   Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles-665/)
-   -   Rules Changes for using Delta Dollars (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1462855-rules-changes-using-delta-dollars.html)

ATLJacket Apr 30, 2013 12:02 pm

I had a similar issue about a month ago on an ATL-LAX flight. Try asking for a CS manager. They may be able to offer a one-time exception to the rule especially based on the circumstances with which the delta dollars were promoted (i.e. Gate Agent said to use it as a gift as stated above). They will mark this in your FF# so its a one-time fix.

The T&Cs clearly state now that it is only for the person flying. However, if you buy one ticket (such as through your corporate TA) and then attempt to purchase a new ticket and link the PNRs, then you will be able to use the certificate (because technically your flying as well).

As always, YMMV.

Long time lurker, hope this helps!

BigFlyer Apr 30, 2013 1:27 pm

I think it depends on how it is presented.

If they say simply it is a voucher good for $300 on Delta and don't at a minimum say "with restrictions on use", or simply say "non-transferable, only one voucher per ticket, good for one year", they have fraudulently concealed pertinent facts from the customer.

Given the fraudulent concealment, one should be able to rescind the contract, in which case you would then be entitled to Involuntary DB compensation.

In California (can't speak to other states), small claims courts have the authority to grant rescission.

So, if Delta is asserting terms of the "Delta Dollars" that were not disclosed, one course of action would be to file a small claims court action asking for rescission of the agreement to accept the "Delta Dollars", and for payment of the involuntary denied boarding compensation.

Often1 Apr 30, 2013 1:54 pm

A decision each pax has to make. Anytime you accept funny money instead of cash/check, there's a reason.

orca15 Apr 30, 2013 3:36 pm

There are one thousand "blurbs" given to a traveler during a trip that summarize complex rules. Think "3-1-1." One more couldn't kill them.

Seems that some English major could come up with something to say during VDB that would keep customers from being P.O.ed. Maybe as simple as


If you would like to take the next flight, we will offer you 400 Delta dollars. These are only good for you or a companion, and cannot be used with another voucher.
I would think that would cover 99% of the upset VDBers.

BigFlyer Apr 30, 2013 3:41 pm

Also, in practice this is not a rush situation. When people volunteer online they can be given a link to the rules to review. If people volunteer at the airport, they can be given a slip of paper to review while they are waiting to see if they are needed.




Originally Posted by orca15 (Post 20677893)
There are one thousand "blurbs" given to a traveler during a trip that summarize complex rules. Think "3-1-1." One more couldn't kill them.

Seems that some English major could come up with something to say during VDB that would keep customers from being P.O.ed. Maybe as simple as



I would think that would cover 99% of the upset VDBers.


TheRoadie Apr 30, 2013 4:51 pm


Originally Posted by FlyAO2 (Post 20676592)
...I have been on multiple flights where the GA implies it is more usable than it truly is

Just like the AMEX shills who imply you can easily find low coach for 25K pesos. Deceptive marketing phrasing is part of the culture.

NapaPatTours Apr 30, 2013 4:54 pm

My 2 cents...
 

Originally Posted by orca15 (Post 20677893)
There are one thousand "blurbs" given to a traveler during a trip that summarize complex rules. Think "3-1-1." One more couldn't kill them.

Seems that some English major could come up with something to say during VDB that would keep customers from being P.O.ed. Maybe as simple as

If you would like to take the next flight, we will offer you 400 Delta dollars. These are only good for you, and cannot be used with another voucher.

I would think that would cover 99% of the upset VDBers.

Note: Correction (removed "...or a companion...").

Unless the Ts&Cs vary by status (or some other factor), you can only use these on the VDB owner ticket. I just used one last month, and had a $37 balance left, which I assumed would be applied to my companion's ticket. It was not, and the 2nd ticket was not discounted. I called DL Medallion desk, and they confirmed this is now policy.

I now have a $37 partial credit remaining on that VDB, which I will use.

...but I don't understand the logic: If I use it next month, or they had applied it the 2nd ticket last month, DL is still going to lose the $37. It seems like a needless customer service SNAFU.

Some would argue that leisure flyers might forget about the cert, or not have available vacation time, etc… OK then, have a 2nd set of Ts&Cs for Status level members. These are people who are far and away less likely to not use the cert, and they are also those who DL may want to keep flying on DL.

However, based on all the recent “enhancements”, perhaps DL’s core business is no longer getting people to fly, but selling SkyPeso to the Amex.

wbl-mn-flyer Apr 30, 2013 6:13 pm

I'm with the OP.

Lots of people will assume what's being offered is the equivalent of a Delta Gift Card. Good for whatever Delta sells, used by itself or combined with others of its sort.

AND THAT'S WHAT IT SHOULD BE.

What a crappy company to bribe people off the plane, and then scam them on redeeming the bribe.

CE Woolman's desk, my .... (another word for donkey)

davetravels Apr 30, 2013 6:35 pm


Originally Posted by wbl-mn-flyer (Post 20678478)
Lots of people will assume what's being offered is the equivalent of a Delta Gift Card. Good for whatever Delta sells, used by itself or combined with others of its sort.

AND THAT'S WHAT IT SHOULD BE.

OK, so how do AA, UA, and US handle VDB vouchers. Let's compare apples with apples.

BigFlyer May 1, 2013 10:58 am

Might be of interest, but doesn't matter.

A used car dealer is not off the hook for cheating just because all used car dealers cheat in the same way.




Originally Posted by davetravels (Post 20678564)
OK, so how do AA, UA, and US handle VDB vouchers. Let's compare apples with apples.


davetravels May 1, 2013 11:32 am


Originally Posted by BigFlyer (Post 20682031)
Might be of interest, but doesn't matter.

A used car dealer is not off the hook for cheating just because all used car dealers cheat in the same way.

How do you figure that not allowing people to combine or transfer vouchers is cheating customers? That's what I was referring to when I made reference to UA/AA/US's vouchers - - The poster above who said - "THAT'S WHAT IT SHOULD BE" - similar to a gift card - - his words.

BigFlyer May 1, 2013 11:45 am

Not allowing combination or transfer of certificates is not cheating the customer - failing to apprise customers of the restriction is cheating.

Doing a fairly rudimentary legal fraud analysis, the question is - is the concealed information material, is it something that the recipient of the certificate would like to know before agreeing to the transaction?

I thin the answer is clearly yes - if a passenger is told that in exchange for giving up a seat they will receive a $200 voucher for use on Delta, I think it is reasonable for that person to assume that the $200 is essentially like cash.

Moreover, it would be a very minimal burden on Delta to announce at the time volunteers are sought that the certificates are not transferable or combinable and are only good for one year. Also a minimal burden to Delta to mention that on the website when volunteers are sought. However, the result of concealing this information is that the offered vouchers seem more attractive than they really are, and more people are willing to accept them (and at a lower face value) than if Delta had made the minimal disclosure of the restrictive conditions.



Originally Posted by davetravels (Post 20682232)
How do you figure that not allowing people to combine or transfer vouchers is cheating customers? That's what I was referring to when I made reference to UA/AA/US's vouchers - - The poster above who said - "THAT'S WHAT IT SHOULD BE" - similar to a gift card - - his words.


mridley2 May 1, 2013 12:00 pm


Originally Posted by BigFlyer (Post 20682299)
Moreover, it would be a very minimal burden on Delta to announce at the time volunteers are sought that the certificates are not transferable or combinable and are only good for one year.

yes of course they could easily mention this but that would reduce their chances of finding pax willing to accept a VDB. So of course they don't mention it.

This thread got me thinking, what percentage of VDB's go unused by kettles? I would venture to say as high as 20 or 30% go unused or forfeited.

To a kettle who accepts the voucher thinking "oh great I can use this next time I go to ____" And then by the time that comes around they forget about or it's expired or AA/UA has a better fare. All kinds of things happen that would cause vouchers to go unused.

Delta claimed fraud in changing the rules and yes there was some of that. Just a few years ago, I personally purchased vouchers from resale sites for less than face value as people were selling vouchers that expired soon and had no use for them. So the seller got some cash that would have otherwise gone to DL and I use their voucher. so DL was cheated out of the money. With the rule change, now the passenger gets cheated rather than the airline. All is fair in love and air travel?

So I get why Delta has these rules in place, but how long will this last? All these restrictions and rules and exceptions and blah blah. Soon enough pax are going to start refusing VDB's and it will be tougher to manage an oversold flight. DL starts paying out 1-3 IDB's per flight and they'll change their tune. Just wait..

NapaPatTours May 1, 2013 12:09 pm

Another very important point I forgot to mention:
 
The residual value is now only good through the original expiration date.

Formerly, when you purchased a ticket and did not use the full value of the VDB, they (NW or DL - I don't remember who it was last time I used one) would issue a new cert for the residual. This new cert would start the clock over, with another year to use the balance. Now it is considered the same VDB #, with a singular expiration date.

MSPeconomist May 1, 2013 1:23 pm


Originally Posted by ATLJacket (Post 20676749)
I had a similar issue about a month ago on an ATL-LAX flight. Try asking for a CS manager. They may be able to offer a one-time exception to the rule especially based on the circumstances with which the delta dollars were promoted (i.e. Gate Agent said to use it as a gift as stated above). They will mark this in your FF# so its a one-time fix.

The T&Cs clearly state now that it is only for the person flying. However, if you buy one ticket (such as through your corporate TA) and then attempt to purchase a new ticket and link the PNRs, then you will be able to use the certificate (because technically your flying as well).

As always, YMMV.

Long time lurker, hope this helps!

I don't understand how this can work. AFAIK you must first purchase the tickets, then call to link the PNRs. So the voucher wouldn't be associated with the other person until after their ticket had been purchased.


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