Award Ticket Routing Rules

Old Jan 19, 13, 9:36 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by amolkold View Post
That's because the MPMs for Hawaii-Europe only allow for Atlantic crossings, not Pacific crossings.
There is an IATA MPM for Hawaii-Europe via the Pacific only. (Obviously it is not possible to get from Hawaii to Europe without crossing at least part of the Pacific ) Last fall I was more successful in getting it to come up on EF than I am right now, but if you try HNL-ICN-MOW, you'll see it quote an MPM that's higher than the Atlantic crossing MPM that shows up at the top of the page.

Originally Posted by MSPNWAflyer View Post
Is there any leeway when it comes to MPM? IIRC, PMUA had you could exceed it by 15%. Does DL do that?
Originally Posted by GYEWorldTraveler View Post
MPM is just that --- Maximum Permitted Mileage. I don't believe there is any leeway ---there is no 15% over or 0.0001% over. If the MPM is 5623 miles, you must find an itinerary of that mileage or less to be valid. 5624 miles would not be valid and would have a fare break
I've seen DL.dumb approve routings that are over the MPM by less than 5%. However, it's not a trend that arises on every route, so I would never count on it.

Originally Posted by MSPNWAflyer View Post
Sorry I have one more question. The rule has:


Does that get an extra 850 each for connecting in NYC, BOS, PHL and WAS for a total of 3400? Or is it only 850.

Oh the funs of planning award travel with the useless delta.dumb
Considering you get four segments each way, there's no way to connect in all four of those cities. TPDs are generally not cumulative. Seems like you usually get the largest one, from what I've been able to tell.
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Old Jan 19, 13, 9:48 pm
  #17  
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Thanks for all the help mtkeller. Does it necessarily have to be 4 each way or can it be a total of 8 roundtrip split into 3 outbound 5 inbound? Also for the TPD, does Delta.dumb let you combine the TPD and 5% overage? For example MPM is 5000 TPD is 500. Could the new MPM be 5775 or 5750? (Depending on the order. MPM+TPD then multiplied by 1.05 or MPM*1.05 then add the 500 TPD. Once again I really appreciate it.
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Old Jan 19, 13, 9:55 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPNWAflyer View Post
Thanks for all the help mtkeller. Does it necessarily have to be 4 each way or can it be a total of 8 roundtrip split into 3 outbound 5 inbound? Also for the TPD, does Delta.dumb let you combine the TPD and 5% overage? For example MPM is 5000 TPD is 500. Could the new MPM be 5775 or 5750? (Depending on the order. MPM+TPD then multiplied by 1.05 or MPM*1.05 then add the 500 TPD. Once again I really appreciate it.
Four each way. However, I can think of one situation where you might think you've gotten five/three. If you ticket AAA-BBB-CCC-DDD-EEE-FFF and then FFF-GGG-HHH-AAA with no stopover either direction and AAA-BBB-CCC-DDD-EEE is a valid AAA-EEE routing and EEE-FFF-GGG-HHH-AAA is a valid EEE-AAA routing, then the turnaround point for the purposes of the fare will be EEE with a stopover in FFF, but you wouldn't think of it that way.
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Old Jan 19, 13, 11:10 pm
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mtk, thanks.

I had tried a while back on the TATL/TPAC route w/o luck and just assumed DL would not price it. Will have to use this sometime taking a stop in Europe.
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Old Jan 19, 13, 11:54 pm
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Originally Posted by mtkeller View Post
I'm just making the point that I don't think this is an airtight counterexample to my theories, although I am perplexed that routing via SVO didn't work, given SU's published fares. Maybe DL's system isn't so good at verifying against those fares, since you seem to indicate that you tried to redeem a held itinerary on DL.dumb and it wouldn't even price properly there.
I didn't want to go back to the discussion re: Siberian award redemptions, but just to reiterate it's DL who has a set of published fares between SEA and BAX. Still award routing breaks in SVO. And yes, you are correct, despite DL revenue fare being available/bookable, my DL+SU award itinerary following the same revenue put on hold still showed 180,000 miles with low DL Y on outbound and low DL J on return (+SU legs in low, of course).

Originally Posted by mtkeller View Post
Correct on everything except the MPM. Routings exceeding the MPM can be allowed if the partner operating the flights publishes a fare routed that way. Any number of people have flown KE, MU, or CZ from the US to Australia or New Zealand on DL awards, and that's way over the MPM.
Oh, you are correct. I remember earlier postings mentioning this + your AKL itinerary through Asia.

Originally Posted by mtkeller View Post
Have you actually ticketed such a thing? That's the question here, not what one theorizes could be done.
I am pretty sure it's possible to book it, but would not go through the hassle of calling DL to get this proven as it would take quite some time. I have another SEA-MLE booked though OK Plus awards and neither OK, nor EY have any revenue fares from SEA to MLE via JFK and AUH using DL and EY.
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Old Jan 20, 13, 12:17 am
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Originally Posted by VladQ View Post
I am pretty sure it's possible to book it, but would not go through the hassle of calling DL to get this proven as it would take quite some time. I have another SEA-MLE booked though OK Plus awards and neither OK, nor EY have any revenue fares from SEA to MLE via JFK and AUH using DL and EY.
The award routing rules of OK Plus are completely irrelevant here. Even the four major US-based carriers have wildly divergent award routing rules. UA will let just about anything go, save a few exclusions forbidding connections in third regions. AA allows almost no connections in third regions (including in Northern South America when trying to go from North America to Southern South America, despite it making perfect sense to connect in Northern SA in many cases) and explicitly requires a revenue fare matching the routing (up to 25% over the MPM, if MPM-based) published by the overwater carrier, so if you want to fly CX somewhere, you'd better hope they've got a fare published even if you're over AA's MPM by less than 25%. In most instances (but there's some dispute over the exact details), that fare cannot be a constructed/add-on fare either. US used to be anything goes but now seems to be enforcing a restriction of MPM+25% on most awards (although just about anything beyond that still goes, other than doing US-Europe via Asia).
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Old Jan 20, 13, 4:50 am
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Originally Posted by mtkeller View Post
The award routing rules of OK Plus are completely irrelevant here. Even the four major US-based carriers have wildly divergent award routing rules. UA will let just about anything go, save a few exclusions forbidding connections in third regions. AA allows almost no connections in third regions (including in Northern South America when trying to go from North America to Southern South America, despite it making perfect sense to connect in Northern SA in many cases) and explicitly requires a revenue fare matching the routing (up to 25% over the MPM, if MPM-based) published by the overwater carrier, so if you want to fly CX somewhere, you'd better hope they've got a fare published even if you're over AA's MPM by less than 25%. In most instances (but there's some dispute over the exact details), that fare cannot be a constructed/add-on fare either. US used to be anything goes but now seems to be enforcing a restriction of MPM+25% on most awards (although just about anything beyond that still goes, other than doing US-Europe via Asia).
Fair enough. Thanks for the insight! I have actually never flown UA, US, or AA, nor participate in their FFP. As an OK Plus member who later switched to DL (several years after moving from Europe to USA permanently) I found award redemption rules in both being strikingly similar, so I thought they are related to affiliation to the same Alliance (i.e. SkyTeam).
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Old Jan 20, 13, 10:16 am
  #23  
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OP, see this thread for lots of good info on award tickets (MPM, MP segments etc):

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...er-thread.html

In general the rule is yes there has to be a legal routing, but many FT-ers (including those posting here already) can cite plenty of examples.
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Old Jan 20, 13, 9:52 pm
  #24  
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Just when you think you have everything you need... WRONG. Yet another to delta.dumb

I found availability on all the flights and under the MPM and < 4 segments. What I'm attempting to do is a multi-city award. The routing would be MSP-LAX (Dest) then LAX-JFK-LHR. I've found low availability for all segments but when I try to put it all together on delta.dumb, it prices out as 85,000 ("one way" low domestic-25,000 and "one way" low USA-Europe and I know the "one ways" are just a roundtrip pricing) instead of the 42,500 which I think it should be. Am I correct in that it should be 42,500? Any advice or do I need to take my chances with calling Delta?
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Old Jan 20, 13, 11:06 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPNWAflyer View Post
Just when you think you have everything you need... WRONG. Yet another to delta.dumb

I found availability on all the flights and under the MPM and < 4 segments. What I'm attempting to do is a multi-city award. The routing would be MSP-LAX (Dest) then LAX-JFK-LHR. I've found low availability for all segments but when I try to put it all together on delta.dumb, it prices out as 85,000 ("one way" low domestic-25,000 and "one way" low USA-Europe and I know the "one ways" are just a roundtrip pricing) instead of the 42,500 which I think it should be. Am I correct in that it should be 42,500? Any advice or do I need to take my chances with calling Delta?
That open jaw isn't legal. The unflown portion (LHR-MSP) is longer than the shortest flown portion (LAX-MSP).
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Old Jan 20, 13, 11:12 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by MSPNWAflyer View Post
Just when you think you have everything you need... WRONG. Yet another to delta.dumb

I found availability on all the flights and under the MPM and < 4 segments. What I'm attempting to do is a multi-city award. The routing would be MSP-LAX (Dest) then LAX-JFK-LHR. I've found low availability for all segments but when I try to put it all together on delta.dumb, it prices out as 85,000 ("one way" low domestic-25,000 and "one way" low USA-Europe and I know the "one ways" are just a roundtrip pricing) instead of the 42,500 which I think it should be. Am I correct in that it should be 42,500? Any advice or do I need to take my chances with calling Delta?
What are you trying to do? The award engine is pricing correctly. If you end in LHR then that is your destination, and LAX is not a valid routing enroute to LHR from MSP.
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Old Jan 20, 13, 11:29 pm
  #27  
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Oh I forgot about that stipulation. I just read something about free one ways on Delta. So following that logic, I can only get somewhere less than the distance of MSP-LAX?
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Old Jan 20, 13, 11:33 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPNWAflyer View Post
Oh I forgot about that stipulation. I just read something about free one ways on Delta. So following that logic, I can only get somewhere less than the distance of MSP-LAX?
No, you can do LAX-XXX so long as the distance from XXX to MSP is shorter than both MSP-LAX and LAX-XXX.
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Old Jan 27, 13, 4:06 pm
  #29  
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I have my award booked but this is just curiosity. Say you want to go from MIA-OME (Nome, AK) then back to MIA. Then to take advantage of your stopover and open jaw, you stopover in MIA for X days then continue MIA-MAD. According to GCMap, MIA-OME is longer than MIA-MAD so that would be a valid open jaw, correct? As for pricing, assuming you can get it all for low, would it be 42,500?
MIA-OME Low 12,500
OME-MIA (stopover)-MAD 30,000

Am I correct on the pricing? Not actually any interest but just curious. Delta.dumb is incapable of pricing it.
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Old Jan 27, 13, 4:49 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPNWAflyer View Post
I have my award booked but this is just curiosity. Say you want to go from MIA-OME (Nome, AK) then back to MIA. Then to take advantage of your stopover and open jaw, you stopover in MIA for X days then continue MIA-MAD. According to GCMap, MIA-OME is longer than MIA-MAD so that would be a valid open jaw, correct? As for pricing, assuming you can get it all for low, would it be 42,500?
MIA-OME Low 12,500
OME-MIA (stopover)-MAD 30,000

Am I correct on the pricing? Not actually any interest but just curious. Delta.dumb is incapable of pricing it.
It would be a valid open jaw. The routing to MAD would be really, really tight given the MPM for OME-MAD. To stay within the MPM (using a TPD) and the segment limit, it looks like OME-ANC-ATL-MIA-MAD would be valid but there aren't many others that you could use.
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