Scott H

Hi gang, hope I can get a bit of help. The Mrs. and I are going to do a western med cruise out of Barcelona. I'd like to try to get into business class. I have 70k SM and 65k Amex pts that can txfr into SM. We are flexible on dates in May, early June, or September, obviously working around cruise dates. I think the best strategy is to buy main cabin and UG using miles. Any strategies that I should employ to try to get the best value?

JetOutTonight

I've read this thread over many times trying to absorb the process before I attempt cashing in the miles for the big honeymoon. Is the March 2015 update/version accurate enough 2021?

​​​I'm about to become PM should I wait to book? Will I be connected with a more experienced agent than GM?
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The intended itinerary is NYC-DPS-NYC in first/business RT

flyerCO

A number of things have changed since 2015. Pricing is now based on origin/destination not zones, married segments come into play on awards nowadays, etc...

Ie it can be cheaper to book say LAX-DPS and JFK-LAX as separate tickets than to book JFK-DPS as one.

When know dates post here. We'll be glad to help do a search. Don't depend on DL agents/system to find routes that work. For example China Airlines (Taiwanese not mainland Air China) via TPE is valid, but wont show up unless agent knows how to look.

bgriff

I'm not sure much from 2015 still applies, Delta has whittled away at a lot of the more valuable uses of SM over the years, so I wouldn't count on phone agents being able to do much for you if you don't see what you want available to book on the website.

What exactly are you hoping to achieve that you can't book online? Have you found award availability for a connection online that the website isn't offering as a through route (say, JFK-TPE and TPE-DPS both show up with award space online but searching JFK-DPS doesn't bring up the same flights)? Cases like that used to be the primary situation where the phone agents could help -- and particularly on connections on China Airlines via TPE, which for some reason often didn't show up correctly on the website -- but I'm not sure if that "loophole" is still open. Most other partner airlines generally do show up online if they have availability, including Korean which is probably your best chance of getting to DPS.

The old advice to search one-ways separately and then combine into a roundtrip generally no longer holds; you will often see better pricing if booking a roundtrip than if booking two one-ways separately.

The call center is overwhelmed for everyone these days so I'm not sure there's any meaningful difference in agent quality by level.

ETA: One other thought, but for markets like DPS it can also be worthwhile to look at cash fares. Qatar Airways, which has an excellent business class product, in particular often has good business class fares to Southeast Asia, <$3K per person appears somewhat often. If you have a lot of SkyMiles, can find a use for them, and don't want to have to shell out cash, then SkyMiles can still be an option, but if you're having trouble making SkyMiles work, it's an option to consider.

xliioper

As others have noted, pretty much everything has changed since 2015 -- married segment logic, variable award rates depending on advance purchase, award levels which require a roundtrip purchase, etc. Also, they no longer have any enhanced availability for Elites, so earning Plat won't make a difference. Using miles will definitely be very challenging and will cost a bundle (240K RT on partners, 290 RT for Delta One metal on TPAC segment) in the unlikely event you find availability at lowest award levels. Agreed your best bet is probably a cash ticket. AA currently has JFK-CGK business fares (JL metal) from $2400 RT if you are willing to book separate flights for CGK-DPS. Singapore Air JFK-DPS in business (via FRA and SIN) is available from $3400 RT.

flyerCO

Phone agents still can help greatly. DL systems are known for not returning perfectly valid routings. CI via TPE being one example, but also on close partners like AF/KL when connection requires lengthy time (ie JNB-AMS-IAH is valid but required 23.5 hr connection so system wouldn't provide it as option)

JetOutTonight

Greatly appreciate the quick replies and robust knowledge of this community. I will work on the dates with my other half. And come back to the group.

Wish list would include at least one leg on a Korean 748i in first or business. Saw they are scheduled to return to on the JFK-ICN route by fall 21 (subject to change).

RealHJ

DL will probably give you only routing via SYD (DL+VA), that will be obscenely priced with additive pricing and the crazy-high DL award prices.

Try to avoid having any DL flights in the mix to get a bit of a reprieve (may be...not sure) from all the massive "enhancements" (i.e., major devaluations) of the last several years. Search for individual segments of logical routings (via TPE is good, also TYO, KIX, ICN, PVG, etc. - of course this all presumes that by sometime next year all those countries will be opened up, which is still a big if), see what's available, then you can try to call and get an agent to piece it together, but expect heavy resistance and numerous HUACAs. As a rule it takes about as much time to book a flight using DL miles as is the flying time; if anything now it's even more so. So, expect to spend some 10s of hours on the phone over several weeks to get a valid routing booking at a through fare...and it's far from certain that you'll be able to get it, as now "there are no rules," so DL can do whatever it wants. Your best bet is to get a more experienced agent with access to the command-line reservation system (you can try asking for Global Ticketing Support), who may be able to book you through that - how it "used to be." If anyone still has that access nowadays (not sure).

Also look at alternate origin airports (e.g. YYZ, ORD, WAS, etc. - then get a separate connecting flight to there) and destination airports (CGK, SIN, KUL). Often that's the only way to get a J class award, and then buy the connecting short-haul flight(s), on one or both ends.

bgriff

The 748i in First is very nice, but unfortunately you can't use SkyMiles toward international first class. If you have lots of Marriott points, you could look at transferring some to Korean's frequent flyer program in order to redeem for KE First, but unfortunately there aren't any other great ways to get there (I did it back when you could transfer from Chase to Korean). (Korean's FFP is also not ideal for a honeymoon since you can only redeem points for yourself and family members -- you have to send in a marriage certificate.)

The good news is that Korean's business class on the 748i is also a pretty good product, although the 748i's routes change around fairly often. JFK also often gets the A380, which isn't as modern of a business class seat, but can be a fun experience since there's a business class lounge area at the back of the cabin. (Of course, many airlines have retired their A380s in the COVID era -- AFAIK Korean has not announced an intention to do so yet, but things can change fast these days.)

Virgin Australia no longer offers international service, so that routing won't even be an option any more (not that it was a very good one even when it was available).

flyerCO

Those countries being open really isn't what matters. Most countries allow international to international transit. VA is no longer flying international (maybe NZ still, but definitely not DPS).

DL will offer connection at Tokyo on GA to DPS (which offers a great product). There's also options via ICN, PVG, PEK (if its flying at time), etc on GA on top of course on KE/MU. Point is anywhere DL flies to in Asia can be a transit point onto GA.

If can book to SIN, take it and then you can book a very cheap KLM SIN-DPS flight. (KLM SIN-DPS is part of KLMs AMS-DPS (stopover in SIN, where they have authority to fly passengers on just the SIN-DPS portion, itll be on a 777) Business for this segment on KLM is normally only 200-300 dollars. I've bought Y for $75 and been happy as it's a widebody.

This was pre CV19, but DL was offering International F awards on some MU and KE flights. They were priced outrageously (even more so than DLs inflated sense of worth for Delta One business class!)

RealHJ

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I remember that before that was literally the only routing that the the DL site spit out for DPS or CGK from US (always routing via the DL flight LAX-SYD), for any dates, given that it's been clearly programmed to prefer longer, more circuitous, and more expensive routes, at the expense or more direct through-fare routing (though nowadays, who's to say there is even such a thing as a through-fare anymore..)

JetOutTonight

Looks like Bali is opening to tourism next month. The desired dates ( flexible +/- a few days) and flights are below. Any help how to go about find award availability and how to book would be appreciated.

xliioper

I wouldn't get your hopes up on finding Prestige availability on KE. Seeing some to CGK in November, but nothing to DPS until April. Everything to Indonesia is pricing as broken fares on KE (both coach and business) with US-ICN + ICN-Indonesia break. This leads to 330K roundtrip pricing in business (CSMH1200 + CSM450 awards in each direction). DL has D1 awards to Asia from 290K roundtrip (CSVR1450 awards) and seeing some availability to DPS in November using pricing calendar -- 11/3 - 11/15. AA has revenue business tickets for NYC-CGK from around $2400 roundtrip with CX or JL metal to/from CGK. Probably easier to book that and a separate ticket for CGK-DPS short trip.

JetOutTonight

I thought there are many unpublished awards tickets that are not shown on the DL site.

If I check the KE site and see award ticket availability; would DL be able to do a long sale over the phone?

I.E from
KE prestige available on 11/13 jfk-dps & return 11/25 dps-jfk
No idea what the DL mile price would be for these.

bgriff

Each airline may offer more award tickets to its own members than to members of partner programs, so KE showing availability on KE flights does not mean that Delta would have access to that same space. AF/KL showing availability on KE flights, for example, is a stronger indicator that Delta should have access to that space (though not a guarantee as there are still weird restrictions and allowances imposed across certain airline pairs).