VDB @ DTW; Does this make any sense?
Dec 29, 2012, 6:27 pm
#46
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In this case...probably should have just IDB if running into a time crunch. The max...$1300 is just over 2x600 and way over 3x600. Guessing she had plenty of seats on the last flight to try for 2 or 3 vols if only one seat needed. And...$600 is the max the GA can offer.
(Actually for domestic $400 is GA max...$600 Redcoat "max", international is GA $600...Redcoat $750 "max".....I know, I know YMMV)
(Actually for domestic $400 is GA max...$600 Redcoat "max", international is GA $600...Redcoat $750 "max".....I know, I know YMMV)
Probably counts as international, though, even though it's a 214 mile flight.
Dec 29, 2012, 6:31 pm
#47
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Well, hello, Mr. Anderson, thanks for joining the discussion.
First, you seamed to think you could get more for VDB'ing from a booked F seat. I do not understand why. DL will potentially incure an extra cost in rebooking you, and there is nothing to be saved in releasing your F seat (as they certainly can not sell it). I would assume purchased F seats would be a negative factor for VDBs, but you expect otherwise. What is your logic?
Second, as has been explained several times, DL generally pays all at whatever the last VDB got (like a Dutch auction). So if we have 7 early VDBs at 600, the you at 800. that would cost DL 6400(8x800) total. But if they took 3 more at 600 it would only be 6000 (10x600). Seams like it is cheaper to pay the extra pax at 600.
Third, should a GA have a cap on this? If not, I suspect Shena would now be able to fly paid F on SQ.
The "generally pay all whatever the last VDB got" can make the cost of paying the last VDB more add up to a higher total than VDB'ing several to make room for one. But it does not in all circumstances, ie, if the last in this case took $650, it's still cheaper to give all 8 $650 ($400 more) than VDB a second unnecessarily ($600). Regardless, do you think that pay all the same is an iron clad requirement? My experience over the years would say not.
As far as a cap, I think economic elasticity theories would tell us that such an item is not required. A cap is provided, perhaps superfluously, by IDB rules.
Obviously you have read few of my posts on the DL forum. Anyone who has would definitely not call me a DL apologist . Maybe call me a realist!
Most of us on the forum would say you got what you deserved. You wanted higher comp for the inconvenience of a VDB. DL knew they could do it for less than you wanted, they might have held up the plane a few more minutes to do it. Job completed.
. Maybe call me a realist!Most of us on the forum would say you got what you deserved. You wanted higher comp for the inconvenience of a VDB. DL knew they could do it for less than you wanted, they might have held up the plane a few more minutes to do it. Job completed.
Regardless, I would say I got more than what I deserved. An upgrade, a generous disrupted travel voucher from a kiosk, and I arrived safely at a closer destination than I would have with my original (cancelled) flight.
Perhaps you are patterning your response to the frequently seen on any airline board; the "{insert airline name here} screwed me thread". That was not my message. My message was much more that DL GA implementation of policy, or perhaps the DL policy itself, makes no economic sense, or at least appeared not to, in this specific circumstance.
And what on earth is a "swarmy" negotiating technique?
I know that you think you are really something, but despite that, the agent is under no obligation to tell you by how many pax the flight is overbooked. Ive seen the back system at work and you would be AMAZED how fast dramatically ovrr booked can turn to booked even. Swarmy negotiating tactics arent necessary. Tell the agent what you want if the cant take it, thry move on to the nedt passenger. Done
$600 is quite a large offer to VDB domestically. If someone is asking for more than that I wouldn't be surprised if the GA wouldn't want to deal with that. Personally I'd rather IDB a non-elite that was last to check-in for the flight over VDBing someone who flies a ton on Delta and has status and is asking for more than $600 to Volunteer. That really doesn't seem like volunteering to me. If the system worked that way people would hold out for $5000 in these situations. If I was a GA and someone was being unreasonable (which I believe over $600 for DTW-Florida is with some of the lowest fares to Florida in the US) I wouldn't want to negotiate with them, I'd move on. Again, I think many GAs would rather IDB what this board refers to as a kettle than VDB someone looking for $1000.
Many people in DTW-Florida get super low fares (less than $150ow). Wasn't compensation only like 2-3 times over the ticket price in cash (up to like $1300ow) if they cannot get the pax to their destination within X hours? If that is the case IDB would pay out less than VDB.
Many people in DTW-Florida get super low fares (less than $150ow). Wasn't compensation only like 2-3 times over the ticket price in cash (up to like $1300ow) if they cannot get the pax to their destination within X hours? If that is the case IDB would pay out less than VDB.
I think it's normally understood (perhaps not at DTW) that the last volunteer will take more $$$ to pry out of their seat than the first. If you think it's common sense that offering a firm, unshakable amount to all volunteers gets the most possible volunteers, I'm completely lost on what I could tell you.
Dec 29, 2012, 8:12 pm
#48
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I don't know if they do this (I haven't been IDB'd lately), but it's perfectly legal to tell the passenger "You're entitled to a check for $400, or we could give you a voucher for $500 for future travel instead."
Despite the lowering of value, I'd still take the voucher (since I know I'll personally pay a lot more than $500 for tickets in the next year, with not many vouchers).
Despite the lowering of value, I'd still take the voucher (since I know I'll personally pay a lot more than $500 for tickets in the next year, with not many vouchers).
Dec 29, 2012, 8:23 pm
#49
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Why do airlines still oversell planes, if a person does not show the airline still gets paid since all tickets have to be prepaid. Years back you could book a seat and not pay till you arrived at the airport.
Dec 30, 2012, 2:38 am
#50
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B) Some tickets are refundable
C) Many tickets are significantly more expensive than the $150/$250 change fee
D) Pax may miss flights due to IROPS
Overselling is part of maxing load factor, one of the most important metrics in the business.
I suspect the whole issue with kiosks asking if you want to VDB is really an effort to collect better stats (which is why is is not really used at the gate(.
Dec 30, 2012, 9:06 am
#51
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Even if that were true (ignoring SDC, refundable tickets, etc.) which is better: sell 100% of the seats for $X, or oversell 110% of the seats for $1.1*X? Providing the cost of overselling (VDB+IDB) is under the extra revenue (which the airline tries very hard to arrange), overselling maximizes revenue.
Dec 30, 2012, 1:42 pm
#53
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Dec 30, 2012, 2:43 pm
#54
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I think you have to check in if you are IDB'd. Not checked in means you just miss the flight without any compensation. I think it is the last one(s) to check in or who arrive late to the gate are the first to be IDB'd.
Dec 30, 2012, 7:01 pm
#55
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If one is referring to IDB compensation, there's no DOT-mandated IDB compensation for either late check-in's or late gate arrivals. Even though you may happen to feel you were denied boarding "involuntarily", it does not mean DOT IDB compensation rules apply.
Dec 30, 2012, 7:28 pm
#56
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First up for IDBs are those with confirmed tickets but no seat assignments. Within that group, it is by status (no status IDB'd first).
After these it is Y by status then F/BE by status. I doubt it ever gets this far as DL always hold seats back.
Dec 31, 2012, 4:51 am
#57
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It is supposed to be cash and an IDBed pax has the right to cash (well, a check, but anyway), but all airlines offer vouchers or other comp instead and most people don't know any better. If the pax accepts what the airline offers, the airline has broken no law and the pax misses out on the cash. All airlines do this. If you are ever IDBed, just tell them you know the law and require check in hand immediately.
Jan 2, 2013, 8:48 am
#60
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Many years ago, I got a peek at AA's (confidential) order for Denied Boarding in case of non-comp IDB (e.g. Gov't requisitions seats, or smaller plane substituted). First to board were the airline's Board of Directors. It went down from there; members (not even status members) of AA's Frequent Flier Program were above those who paid Full Fare Coach.