Air France (AF) ends upgradeable seats from Premium W
#76
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: OKC
Programs: DL DM/2.768MM, Global Entry, Titanium_Marriott, GHertz
Posts: 6,748
Well, I got the close to full picture now:
On September 13, 2012, a memo was sent to all front line (res) informing that
(a) AF will no longer offer SWU upgrades to J. Same memo informs that
(b) AF vastly reduced the inventory of "O" for miles, and that
(c) KL upgrades will not be offered on "M" fare anymore, but only on fully upgradable fares.
That makes the publication on delta.com
http://www.delta.com/skymiles/about_...erts/index.jsp
plain incorrect. I would even go as far as blaming delta in direct misleading. I believe that a delta representative should step into the discussion now and provide some explanations.
On September 13, 2012, a memo was sent to all front line (res) informing that
(a) AF will no longer offer SWU upgrades to J. Same memo informs that
(b) AF vastly reduced the inventory of "O" for miles, and that
(c) KL upgrades will not be offered on "M" fare anymore, but only on fully upgradable fares.
That makes the publication on delta.com
http://www.delta.com/skymiles/about_...erts/index.jsp
plain incorrect. I would even go as far as blaming delta in direct misleading. I believe that a delta representative should step into the discussion now and provide some explanations.
#77
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: FRA
Programs: FB Plat & DL KM, Le Club Plat, GHA Plat, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 1,591
I think both - given AF's financial health and the received impression that DL is wearing the pants in the JV and FB members do not benefit from it as much as SM members.
#79
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#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
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#81
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Wow so you can't even upgrade with an SWU on AF or KLM without a full fare either? So SWUs have basically become DL-metal only again and you end up paying an absurd 3.5k+ to Europe or 4k+ to Asia.
That just made SWUs even more useless, and devalues the skymiles program more.
That just made SWUs even more useless, and devalues the skymiles program more.
#83
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,223
I think the real devaluation here is not the loss of using SWUs on AF/KLM (which is something the vast majority of SM members never used), but the loss of (or reduced) availability of AF/KLM Business awards which is something far more SM members have used.
Delta TATL business award availability has always been bad, the saving grace was access to AF/KLM seats. And I believe that's what probably drove AF/KLM to do this... they had to be wonding why they make their seats available for awards when Delta makes practically nothing available. Delta's leadership of the alliance at work...
Delta TATL business award availability has always been bad, the saving grace was access to AF/KLM seats. And I believe that's what probably drove AF/KLM to do this... they had to be wonding why they make their seats available for awards when Delta makes practically nothing available. Delta's leadership of the alliance at work...
#84
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Greater CDG Area
Programs: DL DM; *A-Gold
Posts: 822
awards for AF biz class are the best value you can (could ?) get for your skymiles. This could explain, why I had much more difficulty recently to get J availability on AF for award flights than last year.
btw, it makes sense from an AF perspective given the fact that on certain routes you could even get J class for less skymiles than FB miles.
#85
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Programs: Flying Blue (AF/KL)
Posts: 4,711
No way. The JV is way too important for both airlines to make any changes. AF is doing the math and sees how much O space is being taken by Skymiles members (since DL's inventory is a joke). This leaves less space for FB members who have been complaining for years about this situation. FB has no SWUs either which allow you to upgrade from PV to Affaires.
The only real solution to this problem is a change to DL's revenue management with more O inventory TATL or by finally giving PM/DM an enhanced inventory access.
The only real solution to this problem is a change to DL's revenue management with more O inventory TATL or by finally giving PM/DM an enhanced inventory access.
I am sure that the fact that it would appear that there are less seats available to FB members compared to SM members has also not escaped Flying Blue and that action has been taken from their side.
#86
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Berlin, Germany
Programs: DL DM/2MM, UA PE, HH Gold
Posts: 1,080
No way. The JV is way too important for both airlines to make any changes. AF is doing the math and sees how much O space is being taken by Skymiles members (since DL's inventory is a joke). This leaves less space for FB members who have been complaining for years about this situation. FB has no SWUs either which allow you to upgrade from PV to Affaires.
Since Delta started the PU503s with the ability to upgrade W to O the situation has become worse for both airlines; AF is seeing a huge amount of upgrades for which they get almost nothing from Delta and Delta in turn is not getting their revenue from selling crazy M fares.
The only real solution to this problem is a change to DL's revenue management with more O inventory TATL or by finally giving PM/DM an enhanced inventory access.
Since Delta started the PU503s with the ability to upgrade W to O the situation has become worse for both airlines; AF is seeing a huge amount of upgrades for which they get almost nothing from Delta and Delta in turn is not getting their revenue from selling crazy M fares.
The only real solution to this problem is a change to DL's revenue management with more O inventory TATL or by finally giving PM/DM an enhanced inventory access.
#87
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Programs: Flying Blue (AF/KL)
Posts: 4,711
I do agree with you that in the ideal situation the same number of seats should be available for both parties.
#89
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: MEM
Programs: DL DM, Marriott/Starwood Plat
Posts: 441