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Air France (AF) ends upgradeable seats from Premium W

Air France (AF) ends upgradeable seats from Premium W

Old Sep 16, 2012, 1:54 pm
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by DLroads
Well, I got the close to full picture now:
On September 13, 2012, a memo was sent to all front line (res) informing that
(a) AF will no longer offer SWU upgrades to J. Same memo informs that
(b) AF vastly reduced the inventory of "O" for miles, and that
(c) KL upgrades will not be offered on "M" fare anymore, but only on fully upgradable fares.

That makes the publication on delta.com
http://www.delta.com/skymiles/about_...erts/index.jsp

plain incorrect. I would even go as far as blaming delta in direct misleading. I believe that a delta representative should step into the discussion now and provide some explanations.
I have tried to follow this thread because I do purchase at least one of these AF W/O fares a year, but what are you sources as your summary is not what the OP said but I can't remember if others clarified the details.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 3:03 pm
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by motytrah
How's the JV going for Flying Blue Members? I wonder if this is AF tightening it's belt with additional inventory controls, or equalization of rules and availability?
I think both - given AF's financial health and the received impression that DL is wearing the pants in the JV and FB members do not benefit from it as much as SM members.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 3:11 pm
  #78  
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If DL just circulated this 9/13, can I undo my CB for SWU's selected on 9/10???
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 3:15 pm
  #79  
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Originally Posted by mnredfox
If DL just circulated this 9/13, can I undo my CB for SWU's selected on 9/10???
If not, you can probably just complain and get 20k miles from the complaint fairy.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 3:20 pm
  #80  
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Originally Posted by javabytes
If not, you can probably just complain and get 20k miles from the complaint fairy.
I might very well do that. I'm not trying to free load here, but honestly I only use my SWU's for AF UG's. Last year I used 6 SWU's. 100% on AF and all on S/W fares...
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 5:29 pm
  #81  
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Wow so you can't even upgrade with an SWU on AF or KLM without a full fare either? So SWUs have basically become DL-metal only again and you end up paying an absurd 3.5k+ to Europe or 4k+ to Asia.

That just made SWUs even more useless, and devalues the skymiles program more.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 5:45 pm
  #82  
 
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Does this in anyway affect X - fares?
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 12:12 am
  #83  
 
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I think the real devaluation here is not the loss of using SWUs on AF/KLM (which is something the vast majority of SM members never used), but the loss of (or reduced) availability of AF/KLM Business awards which is something far more SM members have used.

Delta TATL business award availability has always been bad, the saving grace was access to AF/KLM seats. And I believe that's what probably drove AF/KLM to do this... they had to be wonding why they make their seats available for awards when Delta makes practically nothing available. Delta's leadership of the alliance at work...
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 1:28 am
  #84  
 
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Originally Posted by lewinr
I think the real devaluation here is not the loss of using SWUs on AF/KLM (which is something the vast majority of SM members never used), but the loss of (or reduced) availability of AF/KLM Business awards which is something far more SM members have used.
+1

awards for AF biz class are the best value you can (could ?) get for your skymiles. This could explain, why I had much more difficulty recently to get J availability on AF for award flights than last year.

btw, it makes sense from an AF perspective given the fact that on certain routes you could even get J class for less skymiles than FB miles.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 5:04 am
  #85  
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Originally Posted by cfischer
No way. The JV is way too important for both airlines to make any changes. AF is doing the math and sees how much O space is being taken by Skymiles members (since DL's inventory is a joke). This leaves less space for FB members who have been complaining for years about this situation. FB has no SWUs either which allow you to upgrade from PV to Affaires.

The only real solution to this problem is a change to DL's revenue management with more O inventory TATL or by finally giving PM/DM an enhanced inventory access.
I think you summed it up pretty well.
I am sure that the fact that it would appear that there are less seats available to FB members compared to SM members has also not escaped Flying Blue and that action has been taken from their side.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 5:33 am
  #86  
 
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Originally Posted by cfischer
No way. The JV is way too important for both airlines to make any changes. AF is doing the math and sees how much O space is being taken by Skymiles members (since DL's inventory is a joke). This leaves less space for FB members who have been complaining for years about this situation. FB has no SWUs either which allow you to upgrade from PV to Affaires.
Since Delta started the PU503s with the ability to upgrade W to O the situation has become worse for both airlines; AF is seeing a huge amount of upgrades for which they get almost nothing from Delta and Delta in turn is not getting their revenue from selling crazy M fares.
The only real solution to this problem is a change to DL's revenue management with more O inventory TATL or by finally giving PM/DM an enhanced inventory access.
So what does the JOINT stands for in a joint venture? Isn't it a model in which all seats are pooled together and cost/profits/losses are shared? Haven't we not been told in the past "it dosn't matter who operates the flight"?
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 5:44 am
  #87  
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Originally Posted by BER Flyer
So what does the JOINT stands for in a joint venture? Isn't it a model in which all seats are pooled together and cost/profits/losses are shared? Haven't we not been told in the past "it dosn't matter who operates the flight"?
In the situation where there are indeed less seats available for FB members on DL flights, I can fully understand FB reducing the seats available for DL SM members.

I do agree with you that in the ideal situation the same number of seats should be available for both parties.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 6:08 am
  #88  
 
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If i read the DL memo correctly this only affects SWU's only. So one can still use DL miles for upgrades on AF/KL flights?
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 6:50 am
  #89  
 
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Originally Posted by BER Flyer
If i read the DL memo correctly this only affects SWU's only. So one can still use DL miles for upgrades on AF/KL flights?
Same inventory bucket and it isn't' there.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 6:54 am
  #90  
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Its the same restrictions with miles... you need O inventory. If its not there for SWU, its not there for miles either.
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