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Major Problem with Award Availability on AF using DL Miles
I've been using the KLM site to search for availability on a DL award ticket (flying AF metal). I have found seats available at the Classic Award level for all of the necessary flights but I haven't been able to get any of those flights to pull up on the DL site even when searching segment by segment. I just tried HUCA with 4 different DL reps (including one supervisor) and none of them could see any of the space that I wanted. Am I correct in thinking that anything showing at the Classic level on KLM's site is available to DL?
One of the reps gave me a version of the age-old excuse that "Just because it is available on KLM's site doesn't mean that DL has access to it, KLM makes more seats available to their members and DL doesn't necessarily have access to those seats." 1. Is this true? 2. If so, is this applicable in my situation since I'm using KLM to search for AF space so if KLM can see it then so should DL? To make matters even more strange I just noticed that the KLM site is saying there is only availability in economy but the DL site is displaying seats in business. Despite the DL site showing availability in business multiple reps claimed this space didn't exist even when I told them I'm looking at it on my computer screen right now. ...? In case it matters here is what I'm trying to get: 9/22/12 AF39 IAD-CDG - Showing YS9 on KVS 9/23/12 AF1232 CDG-ATH - Showing YS9 9/29/12 AF1233 ATH-CDG - Showing YS2 9/30/12 AF28 CDG-IAD - Showing YS9 TIA |
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 19272916)
I've been using the KLM site to search for availability on a DL award ticket (flying AF metal). I have found seats available at the Classic Award level for all of the necessary flights but I haven't been able to get any of those flights to pull up on the DL site even when searching segment by segment. I just tried HUCA with 4 different DL reps (including one supervisor) and none of them could see any of the space that I wanted. Am I correct in thinking that anything showing at the Classic level on KLM's site is available to DL?
One of the reps gave me a version of the age-old excuse that "Just because it is available on KLM's site doesn't mean that DL has access to it, KLM makes more seats available to their members and DL doesn't necessarily have access to those seats." 1. Is this true? 2. If so, is this applicable in my situation since I'm using KLM to search for AF space so if KLM can see it then so should DL? To make matters even more strange I just noticed that the KLM site is saying there is only availability in economy but the DL site is displaying seats in business. Despite the DL site showing availability in business multiple reps claimed this space didn't exist even when I told them I'm looking at it on my computer screen right now. ...? In case it matters here is what I'm trying to get: 9/22/12 AF39 IAD-CDG - Showing YS9 on KVS 9/23/12 AF1232 CDG-ATH - Showing YS9 9/29/12 AF1233 ATH-CDG - Showing YS2 9/30/12 AF28 CDG-IAD - Showing YS9 TIA Using ExpertFlyer: Just looked at TATL flights and what I see is just like DL: 9/22, AF39: only C9 (flex business award for flying blue elite) available, no O nor X 9/30, AF28: shows C9 for business, O0 and x9 Using airfrance.com In agreement with EF, AF website for does indicate AF39 available at "classic award" but is requiring 25% more miles (31500), so not in fact a "classic award" X bucket available for DL For return, AF does show "classic award" at 25k miles available So I would guess that DL will be able to find the return CDG/IAD but not the outbound IAD/CDG |
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 19272916)
In case it matters here is what I'm trying to get:
9/22/12 AF39 IAD-CDG - Showing YS9 on KVS 9/23/12 AF1232 CDG-ATH - Showing YS9 There is currently no Standard Award availability on those flights: [KVS Availability Tool 7.0.4/Diamond - Amadeus: Awards/SkyTeam/US-AF] Code:
WAS Washington Metro DC US = IAD DCA |
Originally Posted by KVS
(Post 19273861)
Which POS have you selected in the KVS Tool?
There is currently no Standard Award availability on those flights: [KVS Availability Tool 7.0.4/Diamond - Amadeus: Awards/SkyTeam/US-AF] Code:
WAS Washington Metro DC US = IAD DCAYou have to search segment by segment and then the space shows up. IAD-CDG Segment: http://i.imgur.com/4Bu9m.png CDG-ATH Segment: http://i.imgur.com/9br7T.png |
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 19274015)
I didn't toggle the POS so it is on the default "FR-AF" Am I supposed to be altering the POS? If so, how do I know which to use at what time?
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 19274015)
You have to search segment by segment and then the space shows up.
IAD-CDG Segment: http://i.imgur.com/4Bu9m.png CDG-ATH Segment: http://i.imgur.com/9br7T.png However, segment marriage is not meant to apply to Award Availability (but, occasionally, gets mis-applied in-error), so you should be able to book those segments separately. [KVS Availability Tool 7.0.3/Diamond - Amadeus: Awards/SkyTeam/US-AF] Code:
WAS Washington Metro DC US = IAD DCACode:
PAR Paris Metro FR = CDG ORY BVA XPG XJY |
Originally Posted by vgb2001
(Post 19273020)
Using ExpertFlyer:
Just looked at TATL flights and what I see is just like DL: 9/22, AF39: only C9 (flex business award for flying blue elite) available, no O nor X 9/30, AF28: shows C9 for business, O0 and x9 Using airfrance.com In agreement with EF, AF website for does indicate AF39 available at "classic award" but is requiring 25% more miles (31500), so not in fact a "classic award" X bucket available for DL For return, AF does show "classic award" at 25k miles available So I would guess that DL will be able to find the return CDG/IAD but not the outbound IAD/CDG I called DL and checked the site and they still can't find that AF28 segment. Any idea why EF can see it but DL can't? |
Originally Posted by KVS
(Post 19274131)
If you are booking via DL's US-based call centre, then the US POS would be the most appropriate.
In that case, it's a segment marriage issue -- please see http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Factors However, segment marriage is not meant to apply to Award Availability (but, occasionally, gets mis-applied in-error), so you should be able to book those segments separately. ETA: It appears, as vgb2001 pointed out, the issue is that KLM shows "Classic Award" but it is at the 31,250 Mile level so this space is not available to DL. I guess this means there is no reliable way to use the KVS Amadeus: Awards/Skyteam method to search for AF award space available to DL since you can't tell if that is true Classic award or 125% Classic award. |
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 19274249)
So DL website, DL agents, and Expert Flyer can't see that space on the outbound IAD-CDG. Any idea why KVS Tool is showing it as available? Phantom space?
When it comes to awards with AF, there are multiple booking inventories: C = Business class, bookable only by AF elites at the Flex level A = Premium economy, classic space bookable only with AF miles S = Premium economy, bookable only by AF elites or at AF flex level L = Economy, bookable only by AF elites O = Business class, bookable by any Skyteam partner X = Economy class, bookable by any Skyteam partner What KVS is showing you is in the first 4 inventories, which aren't bookable with Skymiles. EF shows no space on IAD-CDG on 9/22 for O or X, which is why you can't book it with Skymiles. |
Originally Posted by amolkold
(Post 19274270)
KVS is showing you different space that isn't bookable with Delta Skymiles.
When it comes to awards with AF, there are multiple booking inventories: C = Business class, bookable only by AF elites at the Flex level A = Premium economy, classic space bookable only with AF miles S = Premium economy, bookable only by AF elites or at AF flex level L = Economy, bookable only by AF elites O = Business class, bookable by any Skyteam partner X = Economy class, bookable by any Skyteam partner What KVS is showing you is in the first 4 inventories, which aren't bookable with Skymiles. EF shows no space on IAD-CDG on 9/22 for O or X, which is why you can't book it with Skymiles. I know the DL site is completely broken but can I trust the DL site to find AF and KL space if I search segment by segment? If not I guess the only other reliable alternative is EF? |
Originally Posted by amolkold
(Post 19274270)
KVS is showing you different space that isn't bookable with Delta Skymiles.
When it comes to awards with AF, there are multiple booking inventories: C = Business class, bookable only by AF elites at the Flex level A = Premium economy, classic space bookable only with AF miles S = Premium economy, bookable only by AF elites or at AF flex level L = Economy, bookable only by AF elites O = Business class, bookable by any Skyteam partner X = Economy class, bookable by any Skyteam partner What KVS is showing you is in the first 4 inventories, which aren't bookable with Skymiles. EF shows no space on IAD-CDG on 9/22 for O or X, which is why you can't book it with Skymiles. KVS Tool supports (and distinguishes between) all of the above 6 Award Types (including O & X) -- please see http://Help.KVSTool.com/#AF for details. |
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 19274249)
So DL website, DL agents, and Expert Flyer can't see that space on the outbound IAD-CDG. Any idea why KVS Tool is showing it as available? Phantom space?
ETA: It appears, as vgb2001 pointed out, the issue is that KLM shows "Classic Award" but it is at the 31,250 Mile level so this space is not available to DL. I guess this means there is no reliable way to use the KVS Amadeus: Awards/Skyteam method to search for AF award space available to DL since you can't tell if that is true Classic award or 125% Classic award. In the meantime, you can distinguish between the 'true' Classic Award & this new Award type (that 'masquerades' as a Classic Award) by clicking on the segment or activating the [Info] mode in the KVS Tool: [KVS Availability Tool 7.0.4/Diamond - Amadeus: Awards/SkyTeam/US-AF] Code:
WAS Washington Metro DC US = IAD DCACode:
PAR Paris Metro FR = CDG ORY BVA XPG XJY |
Originally Posted by KVS
(Post 19274391)
The 31 250 Mile Level Award is a new FB Award Type (and is a variant of the Classic Award, but is not a Standard Award). We are currently looking into this change in the FB programme.
In the meantime, you can distinguish between the 'true' Classic Award & this new Award type (that 'masquerades' as a Classic Award) by clicking on the segment or activating the [Info] mode in the KVS Tool: This new award level really seems to be screwing things up. I'm seeing some really funky things: KVS KLM Search shows AF39 YS+ at the 25K level and search on KLM's website confirms that this is correct. Search using KVS DL method only displays space in C. Search on DL site also only returns C space, nothing in Y. Conversely, while KVS DL tool and DL site both shows that C space when you search using KVS KL or KL site it doesn't show that C space. ...?! ETA: I just clicked to select that C flight showing up on DL and it gave me an error message saying the flight just sold out. Yet when I re-run my search that space shows up again. LOL DL is such a joke. [KVS Availability Tool 7.0.4/Diamond - Amadeus: Awards/SkyTeam/US-AF] IAD Washington Dulles Intl DC US [KIAD] CDG Paris Charles De Gaulle FR [LFPG] SUN 21 Oct 2012 | 1 Seat Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive St Availability --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ------------ AF 39 IAD 16:40 CDG 06:00 +1 WS+ YS+ [KVS Availability Tool 7.0.4/Diamond - WSpan: Awards/DL-SkyTeam/US-S] IAD Washington Dulles Intl DC US [KIAD] CDG Paris Charles De Gaulle FR [LFPG] SUN 21 Oct 2012 | 1 Seat Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ------------ AF 39 IAD 16:40 CDG 06:00 +1 388 0 CS+ |
Originally Posted by KVS
(Post 19274365)
That is not correct:
KVS Tool supports (and distinguishes between) all of the above 6 Award Types (including O & X) -- please see http://Help.KVSTool.com/#AF for details. I said what KVS is showing for that particular flight. Of course you're not showing O or X ... it's not available. Though there are other reasons why I choose to use ExpertFlyer + an array of other tools over KVS ... |
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 19274473)
How do I turn on "info mode"
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 19274473)
This new award level really seems to be screwing things up.
http://www.KLM.com/travel/nl_en/flyi...iles/index.htm
Originally Posted by HoKo
(Post 19274473)
KVS KLM Search shows AF39 YS+ at the 25K level and search on KLM's website confirms that this is correct. Search using KVS DL method only displays space in C. Search on DL site also only returns C space, nothing in Y.
Conversely, while KVS DL tool and DL site both shows that C space when you search using KVS KL or KL site it doesn't show that C space. ...?! ETA: I just clicked to select that C flight showing up on DL and it gave me an error message saying the flight just sold out. Yet when I re-run my search that space shows up again. LOL DL is such a joke. |
Originally Posted by KVS
(Post 19283275)
As you have discovered, for AF/KL Award Availability, the data from the [Awards/SkyTeam] Method takes precedence over what is shown via [Awards/DL-SkyTeam] or the DL.com website. |
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