Consensus on the Delta 777 business class?
Aug 6, 2012, 4:46 pm
#31
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,363
On a long flight (>8 hrs) I will take the 777 over any non lie flat, and take it over the non direct access lie flats also.
For me,the issue is an undisturbed sleep, and the single aisles are perfect for me.
For shorter flights, I agree that room becomes more an issue, as the value of space over sleep comes into play. But it is not that big of a deal. For work, everything I use is electronic (and this is the case for many others).
I am certain I will like the new 747 better when I fly it in a few months, but as of now the 777 works better than most other seats (that I can afford), certainly better than the PMNW WBC seats of all forms.
For me,the issue is an undisturbed sleep, and the single aisles are perfect for me.
For shorter flights, I agree that room becomes more an issue, as the value of space over sleep comes into play. But it is not that big of a deal. For work, everything I use is electronic (and this is the case for many others).
I am certain I will like the new 747 better when I fly it in a few months, but as of now the 777 works better than most other seats (that I can afford), certainly better than the PMNW WBC seats of all forms.
Aug 6, 2012, 4:50 pm
#32
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,363
On a long flight (>8 hrs) I will take the 777 over any non lie flat, and take it over the non direct access lie flats also.
For me,the issue is an undisturbed sleep, and the single aisles are perfect for me.
For shorter flights, I agree that room becomes more an issue, as the value of space over sleep comes into play. But it is not that big of a deal. For work, everything I use is electronic (and this is the case for many others).
I am certain I will like the new 747 better when I fly it in a few months, but as of now the 777 works better than most other seats (that I can afford), certainly better than the PMNW WBC seats of all forms (though the WBC 747 were previously my favorite seats fleet wide).
For me,the issue is an undisturbed sleep, and the single aisles are perfect for me.
For shorter flights, I agree that room becomes more an issue, as the value of space over sleep comes into play. But it is not that big of a deal. For work, everything I use is electronic (and this is the case for many others).
I am certain I will like the new 747 better when I fly it in a few months, but as of now the 777 works better than most other seats (that I can afford), certainly better than the PMNW WBC seats of all forms (though the WBC 747 were previously my favorite seats fleet wide).
Aug 6, 2012, 5:47 pm
#33
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kingdom of the Sun
Programs: DL GM/MM
Posts: 3,708
Thanks! Now I do, and will keep in mind not to fly AC A330 or 767 then. (Though there at least the seats look better than Delta and have higher quality, not just the cheap and uncomfortable hot faux leather that DL uses (which is again just a cost-saving measure, using it to save costs on seat cleaning, at the expense of passenger comfort). Same seat, but at least for sitting more comfortable as it has higher quality fabric that breathes at least, not the cheap DL faux (I think) leather.)
Aug 6, 2012, 9:57 pm
#34
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,205
Aug 6, 2012, 10:21 pm
#35
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Programs: | *G | STE | HGP ♦ | SPG Au | MR Au
Posts: 3,772
I disagree, unless you are short and sleep on your back.
I'm only 6'1" and never have slept well in the seats. The problems:
1. The seat is oval shaped like a coffin and that is your bed. It would have been better if the seat was more rectangular like a bed.
2. The top of the seat lays flat in a plastic shell with space between the shell walls and the cushion. If you try to sleep on your stomach, your arms fall into the deep space between the shell and the seat cushion. Drove me crazy. The space should be filled with cushions the same thickness as the seat.
3. The bottom of the seat narrows at the end except the end is not symmetrical. As a result, to find room for your toes, you have to lie angled to the center line.
Honestly, I think the seat designers were more focused on design than function. This is apparent when you discover there is no place to store much of anything in the seat area.
Anyway, I find the lie flat seats in the 767's work better for me.
I'm only 6'1" and never have slept well in the seats. The problems:
1. The seat is oval shaped like a coffin and that is your bed. It would have been better if the seat was more rectangular like a bed.
2. The top of the seat lays flat in a plastic shell with space between the shell walls and the cushion. If you try to sleep on your stomach, your arms fall into the deep space between the shell and the seat cushion. Drove me crazy. The space should be filled with cushions the same thickness as the seat.
3. The bottom of the seat narrows at the end except the end is not symmetrical. As a result, to find room for your toes, you have to lie angled to the center line.
Honestly, I think the seat designers were more focused on design than function. This is apparent when you discover there is no place to store much of anything in the seat area.
Anyway, I find the lie flat seats in the 767's work better for me.
I sleep well in this seat, granted I am 5'10", but I loved it when DL had the oversized pillows. I also sleep on my stomach, and the shell doesn't bother so it is very personal. At times, if I can get extra pillows, I will move further up and place my head on the sans cushion portion of the seat, with pillow of course, that makes it more bed like to me as my feet won't be that confined.
But one has to remember that when the decision to equip the 777s with flat-beds was made (in the 2007-2008 timeframe), there were not too many flat-bed options out there that would provide direct aisle access for every seat given the 777's width. The new 744 seat was not an option back then, and the Thompson Vantage seats (those on the 767s) on the 777 would have meant some seats having no direct aisle access.
The 777-200LRs were the first ones to get flat-beds (directly from the factory) so with the lead time required to order the beds, as I said, there were not too many options. Once these bed seats were installed on the 772LRs, they pretty much had to use the same ones on the 777-200ERs (even though by the time the ERs underwent conversion, other options such as the 744 seat could have been ordered).
The 777-200LRs were the first ones to get flat-beds (directly from the factory) so with the lead time required to order the beds, as I said, there were not too many options. Once these bed seats were installed on the 772LRs, they pretty much had to use the same ones on the 777-200ERs (even though by the time the ERs underwent conversion, other options such as the 744 seat could have been ordered).
I personally love the seat, but I am looking forward to trying the new 74S seat this Thursday!
Aug 6, 2012, 10:58 pm
#36
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: DL Plat/SC 1MM, HHonors Gold, IHG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Sam's Club
Posts: 524
HATE the 777 BE. In fact, even turned down a domestic upgrade. If you want to feel like you're sleeping in a coffin, this is for you. And if you're tall like me, they'll have to break your ankles with the off center foot rest.
Anything you want to read or store is behind you, in for coffin position. . . in the fully recline position. Then try to find a place for that big pillow and duvet?
No arm space, no place to set down a drink, and if you're tall, plan on getting your feet slammed.
Anything you want to read or store is behind you, in for coffin position. . . in the fully recline position. Then try to find a place for that big pillow and duvet?
No arm space, no place to set down a drink, and if you're tall, plan on getting your feet slammed.
Aug 7, 2012, 6:18 am
#37
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Meechigan
Posts: 1,006
Thanks! Now I do, and will keep in mind not to fly AC A330 or 767 then. (Though there at least the seats look better than Delta and have higher quality, not just the cheap and uncomfortable hot faux leather that DL uses (which is again just a cost-saving measure, using it to save costs on seat cleaning, at the expense of passenger comfort). Same seat, but at least for sitting more comfortable as it has higher quality fabric that breathes at least, not the cheap DL faux (I think) leather.)
VS was the first to introduce these seats, although the VS seat remains superior to DL, AC, 9W and others because it flips over to create the bed. The bed-side of the seat has more padding (plus they give you an extra mattress topper). VS tried suing the seat manufacturer for infringing their IP by selling to other airlines, but that appears to have failed.
AC and 9W implementations are identical to DL, but cloth (which I happen to prefer over pleather); I haven't flown the others. I think the AC and 9W IFE screens are larger than DL, but I could be wrong.
Given the criteria of flat-bed and direct aisle access, these seats were state-of-the-art when they were implemented. Now, a few years later, there are clearly better options; but as Clipper said DL had no choice but to continue rolling them out to the rest of the 777 fleet.
Aug 7, 2012, 7:36 pm
#38
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Salt Lake City
Programs: DL PLAT and 2MM;AA EXP;MR GOLD;PC Gold
Posts: 542
you WILL enjoy the 747 lie-flats
I had the pleasure of flying on a refurbed 747, JFK-TLV, and it was the most comfortable flight I have ever had. Also posted a record (for me) non-stop sleep time of around 5 hr. I have flown all lie-flat DL seats except 777, but many of the complaints I am reading here about 777 BE are the same complaints I have about the 767 lie flats, especially the 767-400. The 'coffin' experience is huge there. I have no complaints whatsoever about the 747 except that there aren't many flying. I am considering a personal trip next year that would involve LAX-SYD, but it is a 777. I am rethinking the carrier now after reading this.
Aug 7, 2012, 9:38 pm
#39
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: DM
Posts: 1,067
Upstairs on a refurbed 747 is a great seat. I'm not much of a plane sleeper, but I slept all the way from NRT to LAX a few months ago.
The 777 aren't bad, but some are showing their age. AVOD needs an update like the 747 model, padding needs to be replaced, etc. Not sure when they are due a refresh, but the sooner the better.
The 777 aren't bad, but some are showing their age. AVOD needs an update like the 747 model, padding needs to be replaced, etc. Not sure when they are due a refresh, but the sooner the better.
Aug 7, 2012, 9:56 pm
#40
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: MA
Programs: DL DM/2MM Marriott Platinum, HH Diamond,
Posts: 8,906
A Tip for Better Sleep in Lie Flats
On long distance flights, be aware that heavy jets fly for many hours at a noticeable nose-high attitude (angle of attack). This can be quite noticeable and uncomfortable if you put your seat into the flat position as your head will actually be lower than your feet. I go flat and then I raise the head until I don't feel "upside down".
As the flight proceeds and burns off fuel, the angle of attack becomes more neutral.
As the flight proceeds and burns off fuel, the angle of attack becomes more neutral.
Aug 8, 2012, 12:42 am
#41
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,205
On long distance flights, be aware that heavy jets fly for many hours at a noticeable nose-high attitude (angle of attack). This can be quite noticeable and uncomfortable if you put your seat into the flat position as your head will actually be lower than your feet. I go flat and then I raise the head until I don't feel "upside down".
As the flight proceeds and burns off fuel, the angle of attack becomes more neutral.
As the flight proceeds and burns off fuel, the angle of attack becomes more neutral.
Also this is one big + for lie-flat rear-facing seats, such as on BA for example: as there the heat being towards the front, it is very comfortable and the angle is just right (speaking from experience). It also makes for a more comfortable descent, as then you are getting the recline you are otherwise forbidden to have during the whole descent time (that is usually rather lengthy). Rear-facing seats are really the way to go for the best comfort in a business class cabin.
Aug 8, 2012, 12:54 am
#42
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Hoschton, GA
Programs: Delta DM, SP Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 432
Consensus on the Delta 777 business class?
Another tip I found useful: grab a second duvet if possible when going overseas. Use that underneath you to sleep on. Waaaaay more comfortable.
Aug 8, 2012, 7:47 am
#43
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
It's the same on AC's 777s.
VS was the first to introduce these seats, although the VS seat remains superior to DL, AC, 9W and others because it flips over to create the bed. The bed-side of the seat has more padding (plus they give you an extra mattress topper). VS tried suing the seat manufacturer for infringing their IP by selling to other airlines, but that appears to have failed.
AC and 9W implementations are identical to DL, but cloth (which I happen to prefer over pleather); I haven't flown the others. I think the AC and 9W IFE screens are larger than DL, but I could be wrong.
Given the criteria of flat-bed and direct aisle access, these seats were state-of-the-art when they were implemented. Now, a few years later, there are clearly better options; but as Clipper said DL had no choice but to continue rolling them out to the rest of the 777 fleet.
VS was the first to introduce these seats, although the VS seat remains superior to DL, AC, 9W and others because it flips over to create the bed. The bed-side of the seat has more padding (plus they give you an extra mattress topper). VS tried suing the seat manufacturer for infringing their IP by selling to other airlines, but that appears to have failed.
AC and 9W implementations are identical to DL, but cloth (which I happen to prefer over pleather); I haven't flown the others. I think the AC and 9W IFE screens are larger than DL, but I could be wrong.
Given the criteria of flat-bed and direct aisle access, these seats were state-of-the-art when they were implemented. Now, a few years later, there are clearly better options; but as Clipper said DL had no choice but to continue rolling them out to the rest of the 777 fleet.
As for DL 777 vs DL 747, there is after all a reason that CX, which had just installed DL's 777 J seat fleet-wide a few years ago, is now tearing them out in favor of DL's 747 J seat. I flew CX's new J seat, similar to DL's 747 J seat, recently, and it is truly lovely. Lots of personal space, very comfortable to sleep in, and tons and tons of little cabinets and spaces to stash stuff.
Aug 8, 2012, 3:10 pm
#44
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego
Programs: UA LTP, AA LTG, DL Plat, Marriott LTT, HH Diamond
Posts: 865
An aspect that I haven't seen raised here (apologies if missed) is how the seat stacks up if you are traveling with a companion. Having recently done the ATL-JNB round trip with Mrs FTF, we did find the DL 777 versions particularly hard to have much eye contact or discussion, compared to other modern J seats.
We had the middle, which isn't usually great but is usually as good as it gets, but I guess they are just angled out more than some of the other (generally similar) variations on the theme.
No one wants to go back to recliners, but the one nice thing about them was it's better on vacation with your significant other. (Obviously, biz travel can be different.)
Agree that it can be a bit hard to feel good in the "full coffin" position, especially when the nose is high, but that pretty much comes with the territory of all these "pod" seats - leaving aside some of the full F ones where the increased space around your head and body makes it a bit less claustrophobic.
FTF
We had the middle, which isn't usually great but is usually as good as it gets, but I guess they are just angled out more than some of the other (generally similar) variations on the theme.
No one wants to go back to recliners, but the one nice thing about them was it's better on vacation with your significant other. (Obviously, biz travel can be different.)
Agree that it can be a bit hard to feel good in the "full coffin" position, especially when the nose is high, but that pretty much comes with the territory of all these "pod" seats - leaving aside some of the full F ones where the increased space around your head and body makes it a bit less claustrophobic.
FTF