Delta Cancels DTW-HKG effective August 30th
#76
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: DL FO, UA, AA, AsiaMiles, SPG, HHonors
Posts: 7,982
Well, there is that small group of places called the East Coast and however many millions of people who live there, who might have preferred to take a short domestic hop and then a longer international one as opposed to a longer domestic and slightly shorter international flight.
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
DTW is one of the largest northern metro areas in the US, and the farther north you go, the closer you get to HKG. What wouldn't make much sense would be a nonstop from ATL or CLT or MIA or DFW or HOU or PHX or other southern cities. Those hubs would require signficant southerly backtracking for much of the US population.
California has six nonstops to HKG between UA and CX. CX has two more from YVR. The western part of the US appears to be pretty well covered.
DL has focused its Asian nonstops primarily from DTW, and for good reason. It's a good hub location with pretty good O&D and lots of DL connections. The HKG flight just didn't work, but I disagree that failure is due to the location of DTW.
#78
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PMD
Programs: UA*G, NW, AA-G. WR-P, HH-G, IHG-S, ALL. TT-GE.
Posts: 2,897
Actually, since the great circle path for DTW-HKG is just slightly westward of due north (heading of 342 degrees, just 18 degrees away from straight up), DTW is a logical on-line connection point for just about everything from MSP to STL to DFW to HOU and everything east of any of those cities. And that encompasses the vast majority of the US population.
California has six nonstops to HKG between UA and CX. CX has two more from YVR. The western part of the US appears to be pretty well covered.
DL has focused its Asian nonstops primarily from DTW, and for good reason. It's a good hub location with pretty good O&D and lots of DL connections. The HKG flight just didn't work, but I disagree that failure is due to the location of DTW.
DL has focused its Asian nonstops primarily from DTW, and for good reason. It's a good hub location with pretty good O&D and lots of DL connections. The HKG flight just didn't work, but I disagree that failure is due to the location of DTW.
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: HKG
Programs: Priority Club Plat
Posts: 12,311
Actually, since the great circle path for DTW-HKG is just slightly westward of due north (heading of 342 degrees, just 18 degrees away from straight up), DTW is a logical on-line connection point for just about everything from MSP to STL to DFW to HOU and everything east of any of those cities. And that encompasses the vast majority of the US population.
DTW is one of the largest northern metro areas in the US, and the farther north you go, the closer you get to HKG. What wouldn't make much sense would be a nonstop from ATL or CLT or MIA or DFW or HOU or PHX or other southern cities. Those hubs would require signficant southerly backtracking for much of the US population.
DTW is one of the largest northern metro areas in the US, and the farther north you go, the closer you get to HKG. What wouldn't make much sense would be a nonstop from ATL or CLT or MIA or DFW or HOU or PHX or other southern cities. Those hubs would require signficant southerly backtracking for much of the US population.
I flew on NW's 741 or 742 on my first Transpac as a baby to Hong Kong via Haneda. Since then I've flown NW to/from HKG many other times, but ironic that after 40+ years, it's still be back to the future with again just one daily flight via NRT. And we can just hope it'll remain a 744.
#82
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MCO
Programs: DL DM/MM, Marriott Plat Premier, HH Diamond, Hyatt Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 4,081
I have flown DTW-HKG and DTW-NRT-HKG. The first one is nice because it is direct, doesn't involve the long walk and NRT security, and arrives at an earlier hour in the evening. IMO, the only advantages to the NRT connection are breaking up the flt into two shorter segs for those who want that, more MQM's, and an awesome SC.
Sad to see DTW-HKG didn't work out for DL but flying this route a couple times/yr, I can think of worse things that will bother me.
#83
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: DL FO, UA, AA, AsiaMiles, SPG, HHonors
Posts: 7,982
Actually, since the great circle path for DTW-HKG is just slightly westward of due north (heading of 342 degrees, just 18 degrees away from straight up), DTW is a logical on-line connection point for just about everything from MSP to STL to DFW to HOU and everything east of any of those cities. And that encompasses the vast majority of the US population.
#84
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,511
I think the comments suggesting that DL is "losing" and UA and CX are "winning" in the US-HKG market are a bit overstated.
If you listened to DL's and UA's Q1 earnings calls and some of the recent investor presentations (there was one in Boston in the end of May), you'd hear both airlines discuss significant weakness they're seeing in China, compared to a much stronger demand environment in Japan. United has said one of the reasons DL posted stronger Q1 results than UA is that UA is over-exposed in China compared to Delta. Delta, which is much bigger in Japan than United, benefitted from strong Japan performance, while UA suffered due to lagging demand in China.
Delta is very aggressive about managing capacity and will try to turn on a needle to respond to the demand environment. That's what we're seeing here - it couldn't keep DTW-HKG at profitable fare levels, so it'll pull back the flight and continue to serve the HKG market through NRT.
CX has also indicated weakness in US-HKG and is looking to draw back some capacity.
I'll grant that DTW is probably a weaker gateway than SFO/ORD/EWR, but I think what we're seeing here is simply good business by Delta: a low tolerance for loss-making routes; not necessarily that UA and CX are profitable and Delta wasn't.
If you listened to DL's and UA's Q1 earnings calls and some of the recent investor presentations (there was one in Boston in the end of May), you'd hear both airlines discuss significant weakness they're seeing in China, compared to a much stronger demand environment in Japan. United has said one of the reasons DL posted stronger Q1 results than UA is that UA is over-exposed in China compared to Delta. Delta, which is much bigger in Japan than United, benefitted from strong Japan performance, while UA suffered due to lagging demand in China.
Delta is very aggressive about managing capacity and will try to turn on a needle to respond to the demand environment. That's what we're seeing here - it couldn't keep DTW-HKG at profitable fare levels, so it'll pull back the flight and continue to serve the HKG market through NRT.
CX has also indicated weakness in US-HKG and is looking to draw back some capacity.
I'll grant that DTW is probably a weaker gateway than SFO/ORD/EWR, but I think what we're seeing here is simply good business by Delta: a low tolerance for loss-making routes; not necessarily that UA and CX are profitable and Delta wasn't.
#85
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta DM, 3M; AA, FB, UA some lower status
Posts: 394
#86
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Same reason AA flies to China (PVG and PEK) from CHI and not DFW. ORD has lots more O&D traffic to China, even though AA shares the market with UA (it's a huge O&D market compared to either ATL or DFW).
#87
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 349
Anyway, to get back on topic, most of the a.net chatter seems to indicate that DTW-HKG is moving to JFK.
#88
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta DM, 4MM, SC, AmEx Reserve, UA Plat, SPG/Marriott Platinum, Hertz Gold
Posts: 2,383
That would make sense. When I flew this route in July and August of last year, peak season for Asia, it was very full. November, not so much. In August things were actually so packed that I scored the op-up of legend: upgraded to 777 BE for the 14-hour flight. And my co-worker, on a separate ticket but the same flight, got the op-up too! And the most surprising part: we were both FOs at the time! That op-up seems to have used up most of my upgrade karma but I don't care... it was worth it.
#89
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
I think the comments suggesting that DL is "losing" and UA and CX are "winning" in the US-HKG market are a bit overstated.
If you listened to DL's and UA's Q1 earnings calls and some of the recent investor presentations (there was one in Boston in the end of May), you'd hear both airlines discuss significant weakness they're seeing in China, compared to a much stronger demand environment in Japan. United has said one of the reasons DL posted stronger Q1 results than UA is that UA is over-exposed in China compared to Delta. Delta, which is much bigger in Japan than United, benefitted from strong Japan performance, while UA suffered due to lagging demand in China.
Delta is very aggressive about managing capacity and will try to turn on a needle to respond to the demand environment. That's what we're seeing here - it couldn't keep DTW-HKG at profitable fare levels, so it'll pull back the flight and continue to serve the HKG market through NRT.
CX has also indicated weakness in US-HKG and is looking to draw back some capacity.
I'll grant that DTW is probably a weaker gateway than SFO/ORD/EWR, but I think what we're seeing here is simply good business by Delta: a low tolerance for loss-making routes; not necessarily that UA and CX are profitable and Delta wasn't.
If you listened to DL's and UA's Q1 earnings calls and some of the recent investor presentations (there was one in Boston in the end of May), you'd hear both airlines discuss significant weakness they're seeing in China, compared to a much stronger demand environment in Japan. United has said one of the reasons DL posted stronger Q1 results than UA is that UA is over-exposed in China compared to Delta. Delta, which is much bigger in Japan than United, benefitted from strong Japan performance, while UA suffered due to lagging demand in China.
Delta is very aggressive about managing capacity and will try to turn on a needle to respond to the demand environment. That's what we're seeing here - it couldn't keep DTW-HKG at profitable fare levels, so it'll pull back the flight and continue to serve the HKG market through NRT.
CX has also indicated weakness in US-HKG and is looking to draw back some capacity.
I'll grant that DTW is probably a weaker gateway than SFO/ORD/EWR, but I think what we're seeing here is simply good business by Delta: a low tolerance for loss-making routes; not necessarily that UA and CX are profitable and Delta wasn't.
I flew AC and CX last year HKG-YVR in Oct and CX had higher loads (more pax in J, although I received an op up from V on 889)
#90
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 1,380
You forget that "transpacific" is actually "transpolar". DTW's flights to Asia go North, not West.