International (TATL/TPAC) OP-UP vs. SWU

Old May 12, 12, 3:57 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by rylan View Post
It seems to be a little different (and easier) for some reason to get an SWU coded properly for international flights. They just have to active the priority waitlist and enter the SWU number into the PNR, and if it hasn't cleared by checkin then it should be automatically passed to the airport standby gate upgrade list. At this point, according to the SWU terms and Delta internal procedures, you are ahead of any non-rev upgrades or other operational upgrades.

In fact, from my experience if op-ups are needed the people on the SWU waitlist are usually given the upgrade without using the SWU.


As mentioned, you got hosed badly and I hope you report this.
Mixed experience on that. LAX agents have been pretty good not taking SWUs from me on oversold flights when I was OP-UPed, but JFK is a different story altogether.
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Old May 13, 12, 1:03 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by SoraAoi View Post
Now I am really fuming! Clearly, I was had. Actually, twice. I was told EC was full, and yet after 17F was moved up to BE, I remained in the f$$$ing coach seat! I also know for a fact that there were quite a few OP-UPs on that flight, and as a DM you also did not get one? Does not matter what your fare was, I doubt very much that there were 8 or so DMs, all on YBMs (and at least one DM on a B with a PU503 was not moved up either!). I am telling you, this is favoritism/nepotism/whatever-ism is the right word in this situation.

Anything and everything can be done for $$ in Russia, whether it is legal, semi-legal, or completely illegal. Just the way things work here, and can't imagine it not spilling into airline operations, in Russia and on Russian-bound flights handled by Russian agents. I should not be making blanket statements, and I am not accusing anyone of anything, but I have seen this scenario play out too many times on oversold flights. It may be tough to pull off under the normal circumstances, but on an oversold flight, even by one seat, GAs get nearly limitless discretion and can do as they please. DL closes its eyes to these ... "practices" as long as the company makes money, but it really, really smells bad.
So you are going to complain and mention by name as many people as you can, right?
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Old May 13, 12, 1:51 am
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by rylan View Post
It seems to be a little different (and easier) for some reason to get an SWU coded properly for international flights. They just have to active the priority waitlist and enter the SWU number into the PNR, and if it hasn't cleared by checkin then it should be automatically passed to the airport standby gate upgrade list. At this point, according to the SWU terms and Delta internal procedures, you are ahead of any non-rev upgrades or other operational upgrades.

In fact, from my experience if op-ups are needed the people on the SWU waitlist are usually given the upgrade without using the SWU.

As mentioned, you got hosed badly and I hope you report this.
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
On the day of departure, any remaining BE seats should be given to people on Y B M fares using SWUs. This does not require any particular inventory class and is definitely before OPUPs or NRSA. It is last seat availability. We were promised this when SWU terms were redefined a bit around the time of the merger and the DL ATL DO. It is not the option of the GA to decide to OPUP others first for convenience or to give the remaining BE seats to nonrevs. The OP should complain and insist on an investigation in the strongest possible terms.

Personally, I would have demanded a redcoat before boarding and been on the phone to the DM line as well as the Atlanta resolution line until they closed the boarding door.
Interesting. Thanks for the history lesson and insight.
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Old May 13, 12, 2:05 am
  #34  
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Originally Posted by HongKonger View Post
Call and ask a rep (or tweet @DeltaAssist) and ask how your SWU is coded. The response should be UP2A for a DM or UP2B for a PM. If it isn't, tell them they need to code it properly. Never tell them the answer you want to hear in advance as they may "confirm" without even checking.
I thought you could only really check at the airport?
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Old May 13, 12, 12:39 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by mnredfox View Post
I thought you could only really check at the airport?
As soon as you ask to apply an SWU for waitlisting it is coded into the system. You can ask how it's coded.
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Old May 13, 12, 1:03 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by DHalltheway View Post
Interesting. Thanks for the history lesson and insight.
Before the change, DL (paper) SWUs needed to confirm the upgrade before the gate and this did require Z upgrade inventory. On the day of departure, elites who had paid for expensive tickets and wanted to use SWUs would sit in the back when there were empty BE seats or NRSAs put into BE because seats were never released into Z inventory for the upgrades. This is not supposed to happen any more. Like on domestic upgrades, at the gate, it's a matter of having an empty seat in FC or BE, not the inventory code. Note that upgrades with miles cannot be done at the gate nor IIRC on the day of departure, so they must clear into upgrade inventory.

Last edited by MSPeconomist; May 14, 12 at 11:39 am Reason: Added last sentence
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Old May 14, 12, 6:58 am
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Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere...i am only on here infrequently.....my question is whether there is a way to get one of the posters here who sometimes can find out the a post-mortem of what happens on a particular flight to come on this thread and just let us know for this particular flight what sort of categories of flyers were seated in business on less than business fares and what highly ranked category flyers were seated in coach? While I feel the OP has a real beef here, I am not complaining about my position. However, I am always very curious to see these post-mortems and see what happened.
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Old May 14, 12, 8:00 am
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Originally Posted by NewYorkMoscowFlyer64 View Post
Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere...i am only on here infrequently.....my question is whether there is a way to get one of the posters here who sometimes can find out the a post-mortem of what happens on a particular flight to come on this thread and just let us know for this particular flight what sort of categories of flyers were seated in business on less than business fares and what highly ranked category flyers were seated in coach? While I feel the OP has a real beef here, I am not complaining about my position. However, I am always very curious to see these post-mortems and see what happened.
Flight was 07 May, OP was 11 May. The data that's accessible to those in the forum is usually only available for up to 24 hours after the flight. Time is critical.

Others with deeper access to DL systems can see the data for longer; however, don't expect those folks to come to the board with the info.
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Old May 14, 12, 11:34 am
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Old May 15, 12, 12:45 am
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Originally Posted by LedgeT View Post
Flight was 07 May, OP was 11 May. The data that's accessible to those in the forum is usually only available for up to 24 hours after the flight. Time is critical.

Others with deeper access to DL systems can see the data for longer; however, don't expect those folks to come to the board with the info.
Point taken. Thank you.

Perhaps if OP writes in to Delta (I do not feel like I have grounds to write to Delta about the situation because I probably was not wronged according to Delta's existing policy whereas OP was probably wronged due to the fare differential and waitlist position), he/she can ask for this information and report back on here. The information must exist and I would be curious what reasons Delta would give for refusing to give the information to the OP.

The thing that is interesting to me is that if Delta is not itself dictating how the scarce/valuable Op Ups are allocated (through applying a company policy specifying allocation), then Delta is basically allowing its employees to sell Delta's own assets for personal gain. Of course, it is Delta's choice how it wishes to run its business and perhaps this is a reasonable perk to give to its employees, but, if frontline employees do have full discretion in awarding valuable Op Ups, there would appear to be nothing stopping them from just selling these Op Ups and pocketing the value (whether in cash or some other value). I am not placing judgments on this or whatever the practice/policy is.......it is just interesting to me that most business practices are purposefully transparent whereas this one particular area seems to be kept uniquely opaque/murky for unknown reasons.
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Old May 15, 12, 9:33 am
  #41  
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I don't believe that GAs have full discretion over who gets the OPUPs. My understanding is that on DL (unlike some airlines that do deliberately give OPUPs to kettles and new FFers to their programs) the order is supposed to be based on elite status then fare code, except that those who have ordered special meals are excluded. Groups can be passed over if fewer coach seats are needed. I've also heard that those with lap infants are not supposed to be OPUPed. They might also pick someone for an OPUP if another passenger with special needs can be put into the seat, for example a bassinet seat, but this would be more of a judgment call. I don't know how sitting in EC might be considered and whether there would be an attempt to move elites into vacated EC seats, but probably not to save time.
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Old May 15, 12, 10:08 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
I don't believe that GAs have full discretion over who gets the OPUPs. My understanding is that on DL (unlike some airlines that do deliberately give OPUPs to kettles and new FFers to their programs) the order is supposed to be based on elite status then fare code, except that those who have ordered special meals are excluded.
While I have not seen this op-up policy in writing, GAs (both Delta employees as well as contract personnel) at multiple stations (both international and domestic) have confirmed to me that that is how op-ups on Delta are supposed to work.
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Old May 15, 12, 10:31 am
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Actually, I had the opposite experience. On 4/21 the nonstop from JFK to BCN looks to be oversold in Y... according to the display screen anyway. When I approached the GA about my odds for an OPUP, she said it was up to the lead GA but she took down my info. As I was walking away, I overheard the "lead" GA tell another passenger that she can process OPUPs at her desecration and that status doesn't matter. Well, I flew in Y as I had contracted...

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
I don't believe that GAs have full discretion over who gets the OPUPs. My understanding is that on DL (unlike some airlines that do deliberately give OPUPs to kettles and new FFers to their programs) the order is supposed to be based on elite status then fare code, except that those who have ordered special meals are excluded. Groups can be passed over if fewer coach seats are needed. I've also heard that those with lap infants are not supposed to be OPUPed. They might also pick someone for an OPUP if another passenger with special needs can be put into the seat, for example a bassinet seat, but this would be more of a judgment call. I don't know how sitting in EC might be considered and whether there would be an attempt to move elites into vacated EC seats, but probably not to save time.
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Old May 15, 12, 10:36 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by ClipperDelta View Post
While I have not seen this op-up policy in writing, GAs (both Delta employees as well as contract personnel) at multiple stations (both international and domestic) have confirmed to me that that is how op-ups on Delta are supposed to work.
Supposed to work and actually working are two very different things, of course. I was told by GAs that there are "recommendations," not rules, and GAs have a final say in who is OP-UPed and who is not. Not processing SWUs properly is a different story but, again, in the oversell situation, GAs can do pretty much as they please: the goal is to get as many people on the flight as possible, avoid paying out too much, and get the plane out on time. The company will close its eyes to everything else.

Anyway, I have written a polite inquiry to Delta. Will let you know what happens.
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Old May 15, 12, 10:41 am
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Originally Posted by cgchu View Post
Actually, I had the opposite experience. On 4/21 the nonstop from JFK to BCN looks to be oversold in Y... according to the display screen anyway. When I approached the GA about my odds for an OPUP, she said it was up to the lead GA but she took down my info. As I was walking away, I overheard the "lead" GA tell another passenger that she can process OPUPs at her desecration and that status doesn't matter. Well, I flew in Y as I had contracted...
Precisely! A spectacular opportunity to exercise discretion and bend the rules to their benefit ("desecration" was a perfect typo! )
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