Skymiles Change Rumor?
#976
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: DL FO, UA, AA, AsiaMiles, SPG, HHonors
Posts: 7,982
Yes, I read the thread. I agree with your 2 suggestions, but I don't recall anyone else posting them above. They are good suggestions, especially number 2 about promos and giveaways. I would add that getting rid of credit card miles would be nice but that is never going to happen.
I stand by my comment about upgrades, or the lack of them. At least on the routes I fly, planes are packed. DL is simply not going to increase capacity to give out more free upgrades. No one here seems to recognize that. I would submit that, like it or not. FCM is here to stay as well.
I stand by my comment about upgrades, or the lack of them. At least on the routes I fly, planes are packed. DL is simply not going to increase capacity to give out more free upgrades. No one here seems to recognize that. I would submit that, like it or not. FCM is here to stay as well.
#977
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bye Delta
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Plat, Nat'l Exec Elite, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 16,269
Why? DL sells them to Amex and earns more per mile than it costs DL to redeem them. That makes good business sense for DL. The more miles DL can sell without flying a plane the better off they are. You and bubbashow and the others should be happy about that and want DL to sell more miles via Amex and non-flight partners, not fewer.
#978
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Yet I am in radio where once the airtime for sale passes, there is no getting it back. My career path has also made me very adept at identifying people that want something for nothing.
#979
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Up in the Air
Programs: DL MM; UA MM/1K
Posts: 613
DL, like every company, needs to continuously improve its product. The current FF offering has some gaps:
Trying to pull a Mullin (reduce MQM for low fares) will be applauded by UA and AA and will cost the CEO his job if the customer backlash turns out to be bigger than anticipated - I believe DL top management are savvy enough to avoid this risk.
Adding a revenue based tier is probably looming, and in all honesty if somebody flies my schedule in paid BE his loyalty is worth much more than mine.
A few observations regarding this Thread:
Happy Travels
DLP
- DL does not offer a revenue based FF tier (similar to the LH Hon or MP GS) - DM has no revenue requirements.
- No incentive to fly more the the threshold for the highest tier (eg additional CPUs and GPU issued for every X miles flown on MP) - there are several members on this board that are flying other airlines since the rollover miles will allow them to maintain DM status for several years.
- Sub-par international upgrade policy - Telling $20k/year international road warriors that they are not eligible for upgrades did not help DL's market share in that sector.
Trying to pull a Mullin (reduce MQM for low fares) will be applauded by UA and AA and will cost the CEO his job if the customer backlash turns out to be bigger than anticipated - I believe DL top management are savvy enough to avoid this risk.
Adding a revenue based tier is probably looming, and in all honesty if somebody flies my schedule in paid BE his loyalty is worth much more than mine.
A few observations regarding this Thread:
- There was a similar rumor on the UA forum a few months before they announced the new program rules. It took the company rep on FT less than a week to post a message stating that some of the rumors are exaggerated (without providing any details that could be later used against UA). DL seems to disregard this forum.
- Numerous posters are complaining about upgrades. Where did this sense of entitlement come from? I wonder how many of those posters believe that their business should maintain an excess level of premium inventory?
Happy Travels
DLP
#980
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Numerous posters are complaining about upgrades. Where did this sense of entitlement come from? I wonder how many of those posters believe that their business should maintain an excess level of premium inventory?
LOL....just search 3 letters FCM. You will see complaint after complaint that DL is selling inventory out from under Elites for 49, 69, 89 dollars. What they fail to mention is that the rate is generally over M+ fares. The DYKWIA mentality on here is priceless. Many on this board make an argument that DL is better holding that inventory for upgrades than selling it for a premium over average fare.
LOL....just search 3 letters FCM. You will see complaint after complaint that DL is selling inventory out from under Elites for 49, 69, 89 dollars. What they fail to mention is that the rate is generally over M+ fares. The DYKWIA mentality on here is priceless. Many on this board make an argument that DL is better holding that inventory for upgrades than selling it for a premium over average fare.
#981
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bye Delta
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Plat, Nat'l Exec Elite, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 16,269
Numerous posters are complaining about upgrades. Where did this sense of entitlement come from? I wonder how many of those posters believe that their business should maintain an excess level of premium inventory?
LOL....just search 3 letters FCM. You will see complaint after complaint that DL is selling inventory out from under Elites for 49, 69, 89 dollars. What they fail to mention is that the rate is generally over M+ fares. The DYKWIA mentality on here is priceless. Many on this board make an argument that DL is better holding that inventory for upgrades than selling it for a premium over average fare.
LOL....just search 3 letters FCM. You will see complaint after complaint that DL is selling inventory out from under Elites for 49, 69, 89 dollars. What they fail to mention is that the rate is generally over M+ fares. The DYKWIA mentality on here is priceless. Many on this board make an argument that DL is better holding that inventory for upgrades than selling it for a premium over average fare.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...es-stupid.html
#982
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Programs: | *G | STE | HGP ♦ | SPG Au | MR Au
Posts: 3,772
Why do HVCs care about program changes in which they will still benefit? Simple, if DL changes to a revenue-based model and mileage value decreases then we all suffer. It doesn't matter if the new system stratifies earned mileage by medallion level and top tier medallions earn the most miles if the redemption value goes to 500,000 miles for an international BE award ticket it makes it very difficult for all of us to use our miles. Plus, we have all seen the disappearance of domestic UGs at window and with continuing FCM this promises to only worsen with time.
I recognize that as a HVC, I will still benefit personally, but if it takes an entire year of flying to accumulate enough miles for that international BE ticket then I have lost and all of you flying 25,000 miles a year have definitely lost. This is a lose-lose proposition for all of us!
I recognize that as a HVC, I will still benefit personally, but if it takes an entire year of flying to accumulate enough miles for that international BE ticket then I have lost and all of you flying 25,000 miles a year have definitely lost. This is a lose-lose proposition for all of us!
one of the few UHVC on this thread who seems to understand the implications better than the others.
What is the % of people who spend $100K+ a year on air travel on Delta? Its probably a very small %, but I have no data to base that on. There are plenty of folks, like me, who spend between $10,000 and $15,000 a year on airfare. What does that make us, chopped liver? If DL decides to start treating us like chopped liver and ham sandwiches, then I hope DL doesn't think they could stay in business by only catering to the rich and famous.
Making an educated guess, I would think that customers who spend 10-15K a year are between 1 or 2 sigma on normal distribution curve, meaning top 20%. Why? Because Delta earns about $28,000,000,000 of revenue a year and has about 100,000,000 enrolled in their frequent flyer program (this number is conservative, 1 in 3 Americans). Based on those number, the average frequent flyer pays $280 a year to contribute. While, I honestly expect the distribution to be skewed, I do not know how much it skews the data.
So yes, in my mind, 10-15K is HVC (I am in that bracket as well). While we may not contribute as much as the 100K flyer, who I view as UHVC, our contributions are significant enough that if droves of us move or stop spending, it hurts DL as much as a few UHVC leaving. We are talking 10 HVC (10-15K customer) is the same as 1 UVC (100+K), and 100 HVC cost Delta 1-1.5 Million in revenue. That ain't chump change and will erode profit, unless more enhancements are introduced meaning that in order to maintain profit DL fields either a worse product or charges those who continue to fly more as a means to keep up.
Last edited by DHalltheway; Mar 24, 2012 at 1:12 pm
#983
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: DL DM; DL AMEX Reserve; HHonors Gold
Posts: 1,984
Making an educated guess, I would think that customers who spend 10-15K a year are between 1 or 2 sigma on normal distribution curve. Why? Because Delta earns about $28,000,000,000 of revenue a year and has about 100,000,000 enrolled in their frequent flyer program (this number is conservative, 1 in 3 Americans).
#984
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Programs: | *G | STE | HGP ♦ | SPG Au | MR Au
Posts: 3,772
Yes!
Considering that not all Medallions are Americans: I am in that group.
PS: I said medallions, never said anything about their activity. I am also willing to bet that approximately 1/3 of that group is inactive, but I don't have real numbers to extrapolate. But if we take that 2/3 spend money into consideration, the average spending per medallion is still a grand total of $420+ per medallion!
Considering that not all Medallions are Americans: I am in that group.
PS: I said medallions, never said anything about their activity. I am also willing to bet that approximately 1/3 of that group is inactive, but I don't have real numbers to extrapolate. But if we take that 2/3 spend money into consideration, the average spending per medallion is still a grand total of $420+ per medallion!
Last edited by DHalltheway; Mar 24, 2012 at 1:28 pm Reason: adding PS:
#985
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 68,925
Its advertisements and its website give you the impression (although it is never actually said) that once you make FO you will be showered with upgrades.
"You've reached Medallion status and now it's time to reap the benefits."
Among those benefits are "Unlimited Medallion Complementary Upgrades" which you will be notified that you will receive one day before departure.
Of course, experienced fliers realize that these are as rare as domestic award ticket for 25,000 SkyMiles r/t, but that fact is not, in the least, emphasized by Delta anywhere.
#986
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: Formaldehyde Medallion DL DieMiles
Posts: 12,646
Yes!
Considering that not all Medallions are Americans: I am in that group.
PS: I said medallions, never said anything about their activity. I am also willing to bet that approximately 1/3 of that group is inactive, but I don't have real numbers to extrapolate. But if we take that 2/3 spend money into consideration, the average spending per medallion is still a grand total of $420+ per medallion!
Considering that not all Medallions are Americans: I am in that group.
PS: I said medallions, never said anything about their activity. I am also willing to bet that approximately 1/3 of that group is inactive, but I don't have real numbers to extrapolate. But if we take that 2/3 spend money into consideration, the average spending per medallion is still a grand total of $420+ per medallion!
It is not hard to envision large portion of the membership spending less than $500 (as in, one flight) per year.
Think of all the AMEX card holders who signed up to get their 25K miles, believing that they might be able to use them some day.
#987
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
It comes from Delta. It has gone out of its way to install that sense of entitlement into its FFs.
Its advertisements and its website give you the impression (although it is never actually said) that once you make FO you will be showered with upgrades.
"You've reached Medallion status and now it's time to reap the benefits."
Among those benefits are "Unlimited Medallion Complementary Upgrades" which you will be notified that you will receive one day before departure.
Of course, experienced fliers realize that these are as rare as domestic award ticket for 25,000 SkyMiles r/t, but that fact is not, in the least, emphasized by Delta anywhere.
Its advertisements and its website give you the impression (although it is never actually said) that once you make FO you will be showered with upgrades.
"You've reached Medallion status and now it's time to reap the benefits."
Among those benefits are "Unlimited Medallion Complementary Upgrades" which you will be notified that you will receive one day before departure.
Of course, experienced fliers realize that these are as rare as domestic award ticket for 25,000 SkyMiles r/t, but that fact is not, in the least, emphasized by Delta anywhere.
Among those benefits are "Unlimited Medallion Complementary Upgrades" which you will be notified that you will receive one day before departure.
again...most people ignore the "space available". Dl determines the amount of space, not us.
Last edited by bubbashow; Mar 24, 2012 at 1:56 pm
#988
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Franche Comté, FR, Atlanta, USA
Programs: DL DM-2MM, BA Gold, A3 Gold, AF Plat
Posts: 408
Yes!
Considering that not all Medallions are Americans: I am in that group.
PS: I said medallions, never said anything about their activity. I am also willing to bet that approximately 1/3 of that group is inactive, but I don't have real numbers to extrapolate. But if we take that 2/3 spend money into consideration, the average spending per medallion is still a grand total of $420+ per medallion!
Considering that not all Medallions are Americans: I am in that group.
PS: I said medallions, never said anything about their activity. I am also willing to bet that approximately 1/3 of that group is inactive, but I don't have real numbers to extrapolate. But if we take that 2/3 spend money into consideration, the average spending per medallion is still a grand total of $420+ per medallion!
#989
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Programs: | *G | STE | HGP ♦ | SPG Au | MR Au
Posts: 3,772
This strongly reflect Delta as a company, especially when the CEO continually states that the company is "founded on integrity, loyalty, and mutual respect".
#990
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Planet Earth
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Posts: 3,772
But I do believe that you only need to move over 1 decimal as I think DL has more than 10 million FO/GM/PM/DM. Especially with rollover and ways to earn non flying MQM.
Last edited by DHalltheway; Mar 24, 2012 at 2:09 pm