AA_EXP09

A client in FRA bought J for me, but another one in HKG bought Y. (J ex LAS, Y eX YVR)
YMMV.

AA_EXP09

They must not be FTers that want the most miles per itin.
I book as per the most stops allowed by rules or try and get as close to MPM as I can.
(Except for my trip to HKG, it's too much of a hassle to enter Korea for a few hundred more miles)

bubbashow

What I think people on here fail to understand is that the Kettles will fill that volume. Look at load factors on NK. They are there, and they will come to save $5. Then, they will pay for each bag, each seat assignment, each drink, each snack, each interaction. Low rev elites will not. They pay the cheapo fare and get the perks for free. Replace a sLUT elite with a Kettle, DL wins EVERY time. That will also allow DL to better cater to those that are paying the bills.

avidflyer

That is exactly the bet they are placing here. It may be the move of the century or another carrier may leverage it to spin their product another way. Time will tell but one thing is for sure: the game has changed at Delta.

LedgeT

I cancelled a DL XXX-ATL-MCO-ATL-XXX flight today and rebooked XXX-MCO (direct instead of 1 stop in ATL/MEM) in part because of the changes. The net savings was around $15 so flying DL wouldn't have been unreasonably more expensive... But, I was willing to do it... After the "proposed announcement", I'm changing that up.

BTW, the new XXX-MCO is operated by Silver Airways, DBA United Express, so.... god help me... But, it is direct, after all! First time ever on United!

MSPeconomist

The problem for DL, however, is that the kettles are extremely price sensitive while even many supercheap elites will pay extra to fly DL, sometimes not even checking fares and schedules on other carriers. Maybe the kettles are resigned to paying certain additional fees, but many do the DL versus WN price comparison taking account that DL charges for a checked bag while WN does not. If DL can profit from enough additional fees from kettles to offset the premium that cheap
elites will pay to fly DL, DL could win but they are taking a big gamble in
the sense that they may know something about price elasticity of demand for different market segments and willingness to accept certain fees, but they have no way to estimate or perhaps even measure ex post the revenue or potential profits from customers they will drive away.

I had been opposed to regulations requiring more explicit disclosure of optional fees or even inclusion of these fees, such as for a checked bag, into the total fares that airlines advertise, but now I'm not so sure. If they can count on kettles not using these fees in their purchase decisions under the current rules, this makes it entirely too easy for carriers to raise fees and/or impose additional fees almost without restraint. I never thought I would be arguing in favor of increased regulation.

It could be similar to the M+ SWU situation in that they see the increased revenue from voluntary purchases of M fares when lower fare classes are available in order to get the upgrade, but they do not see the customers who defect to other carriers in their data, nor do they see those who become less enthusiastic about collecting more miles in order to upgrade, get award tickets, or earn SWUs.

Paddlenpedal

Where is the "proposed announcement"? I've tried to follow this thread, but after 40 pages of rumor and speculations, I gave up. Can someone link to a definitive program change page with real info please? I've got a lot to book, but am putting it off until I know what I'm working with.

fracas

There isn't a proposed announcement, just calls for attention.

mother-

How could you possibly have even skimmed the first 4 pages and be asking this?

Paddlenpedal

Well, the first 4 pages were all rumor and speculation. Now this thread is over 93 pages. I kinda thought that going that long, surely there must be more to base this panic on except a thread on another site about a rumor someone heard. Guess not.

LedgeT

See you after the announcement is made.....

DHalltheway

What you say makes perfect sense and in my mind big question is how do they differentiate themselves from the budget airlines who provide more for less (especially WN providing free bags)?

The only way they can do this is by reducing fares to compete against budget carriers. It is also important to bear in mind that most price sensitive kettles are often irregular flyers.

I believe that DL won't see customers who defect until it is too late. That is the main issue that they will have should they decide to launch this. Especially, if the other legacies do not follow.

Paddlenpedal

You will see me somewhere-Either on a Delta plane, or maybe AA, WN, hell, I don't care. To me the points, and benefits are just something that makes life on the road a little bearable. If it changes, for better or for worse, doesn't really matter, I'm still going to have to travel. So, I guess I'm not going to get too worked up, until something actually happens I suppose. Just booked my flights, we'll see what we'll see I guess, and if I get stuck in Y because I booked a T fare, well, I guess I get what I paid for.

LedgeT

Not debating that at all... When I book Y, I expect to fly Y. Everyone in this forum could have an employer-booked Y fare and then (personally) pay to upgrade to full F.

F is not an entitlement - it is a benefit of loyalty. In this case, the airlines (DL) control who is loyal and who isn't... At least in their eyes......

Tomphot

You need to adjust your settings, I'm on page 36