Skymiles Change Rumor?
Mar 20, 2012, 3:07 pm
#496
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Programs: | *G | STE | HGP ♦ | SPG Au | MR Au
Posts: 3,772
If DL wants to change the rules (and they do, it's clear), it's their choice as long as they inform the clients WELL IN ADVANCE, explain the rules and allow them to make a customer-wise decision (is this a good or bad fit?) You can't change the rules in September, June or December, and you cannot announce changes for March in Mid-January or Feb.
To my specific opinions-- If DL wants to add additional ways to get into each status that are also revenue based, it may (I am not sure) be a good option to balance all worlds. Again, it depends on the formula and the specific approach. If DL indeed ranks DM services by internal score, it is fair and expected that we would know our score, the benefits in each 'rank' and the way it is calculated, so we can make our own decisions regarding the business relations (since we are not ham sandwiches)
Long day ahead, better go back to the computers.
To my specific opinions-- If DL wants to add additional ways to get into each status that are also revenue based, it may (I am not sure) be a good option to balance all worlds. Again, it depends on the formula and the specific approach. If DL indeed ranks DM services by internal score, it is fair and expected that we would know our score, the benefits in each 'rank' and the way it is calculated, so we can make our own decisions regarding the business relations (since we are not ham sandwiches)
Long day ahead, better go back to the computers.
Pray tell what happened at that DO?
T fares TPAC are only useful if you want to sit in coach.
S fares exist only in some markets. From MSP, even I fares are getting rare, including around low business travel periods and on empty planes. When I have seen them recently, they have been about $2000 more RT than an M fare.
S fares exist only in some markets. From MSP, even I fares are getting rare, including around low business travel periods and on empty planes. When I have seen them recently, they have been about $2000 more RT than an M fare.
Mar 20, 2012, 3:14 pm
#497
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
As an aside, I took a look today at the number of folks currently on the upgrade list on UA for several routes and flights in the next few days.
It makes for sombre viewing. ORD-SFO hub to hub on a 319 with 8F seats, all full, and 54 on the upgrade list? ORD-IAH with 67 on the upgrade list? BOS-Anywhere - 40+ on list on almost every flight.
Conceivably, that means that the number of "Elites" who will miss their upgrade can't even be accommodated in the E+ section, so E- it is for some "Elites".
Even non hub-to-hub routes, upgrade lists run from the 20s to the 40s. The rare exceptions to the rule - Saturday leisure flights at off times into places like LAS or MCO. Other than that, it'd really look a bit grim to be a Silver or Gold (possibly even Plat) equivalent over at UA.
Time will tell what DL plans to do. Largely it will depend on the revenue based accrual and redemption rates, but I doubt DL would invest a ton of money reinventing the wheel unless there were clear benefits to them in reducing SM liabilities and overhauling (read: increasing) the amount of miles being required for redemptions.
As a humble GM, I still enjoy a fairly decent upgrade rate, and usually get a decent exit row or bulkhead seat on those flights I don't. Javabytes did an eloquent job articulating earlier what, I think, is the heart of a frequent flyer program for many of us. Most of us are fairly (very?) loyal to DL, and like Javabytes, I pay a higher fare, or put up with less than stellar connections, to maintain my benefits with DL which I feel is a worthwhile trade off.
True HVCs should indeed be recognised at DL, and that number of folks should be within the low single digit percentage of DL's customer base. That's not to say that for the remaining 15 or so% (I admit I'm guestimating here) of folks that have some form of Medallion status, whom aren't in that top couple of percentage points for being a true HVC, that there isn't merit to DL retaining some benefits.
Many post about "why should DL give you the perks". Well, why not? For me, I rarely check a bag (and I'd guess this is true of many/most Elites for majority of their flying, so it's not like there is a big loss in potential revenue here), I largely value getting an agent quickly when I need help, SkyPriority, and the occasional upgrade. An upgrade that - ultimately - is a seat that would otherwise go empty because no one wants to buy it, and anyone whom is "bigger/better/flys more/pays more" than me gets it ahead of me anyway. So what is the true cost of all these perks to DL? Really not that much. I'm sure it's more than offset by the incremental dollars DL gets from the DL credit card I have!
I guess that's why I remain unsure as to the logic of completely gutting both the SM and the Medallion program.
If DL wants to thin the ranks, as others have posted, it starts by stopping giving away MQM's left and right. I earn every MQM BIS, and while I recognise that I am not an HVC in the true sense of the word (i.e. top few percentage points of DL's customer base), I do think I have some "value" to DL on the range of T through F fares that I buy that have me flying around 50,000 miles a year BIS. Certainly for the relatively low cost to provide the benefits to keep me loyal, it just seems a bit unfathomable.
/end ramble.
It makes for sombre viewing. ORD-SFO hub to hub on a 319 with 8F seats, all full, and 54 on the upgrade list? ORD-IAH with 67 on the upgrade list? BOS-Anywhere - 40+ on list on almost every flight.
Conceivably, that means that the number of "Elites" who will miss their upgrade can't even be accommodated in the E+ section, so E- it is for some "Elites".
Even non hub-to-hub routes, upgrade lists run from the 20s to the 40s. The rare exceptions to the rule - Saturday leisure flights at off times into places like LAS or MCO. Other than that, it'd really look a bit grim to be a Silver or Gold (possibly even Plat) equivalent over at UA.
Time will tell what DL plans to do. Largely it will depend on the revenue based accrual and redemption rates, but I doubt DL would invest a ton of money reinventing the wheel unless there were clear benefits to them in reducing SM liabilities and overhauling (read: increasing) the amount of miles being required for redemptions.
As a humble GM, I still enjoy a fairly decent upgrade rate, and usually get a decent exit row or bulkhead seat on those flights I don't. Javabytes did an eloquent job articulating earlier what, I think, is the heart of a frequent flyer program for many of us. Most of us are fairly (very?) loyal to DL, and like Javabytes, I pay a higher fare, or put up with less than stellar connections, to maintain my benefits with DL which I feel is a worthwhile trade off.
True HVCs should indeed be recognised at DL, and that number of folks should be within the low single digit percentage of DL's customer base. That's not to say that for the remaining 15 or so% (I admit I'm guestimating here) of folks that have some form of Medallion status, whom aren't in that top couple of percentage points for being a true HVC, that there isn't merit to DL retaining some benefits.
Many post about "why should DL give you the perks". Well, why not? For me, I rarely check a bag (and I'd guess this is true of many/most Elites for majority of their flying, so it's not like there is a big loss in potential revenue here), I largely value getting an agent quickly when I need help, SkyPriority, and the occasional upgrade. An upgrade that - ultimately - is a seat that would otherwise go empty because no one wants to buy it, and anyone whom is "bigger/better/flys more/pays more" than me gets it ahead of me anyway. So what is the true cost of all these perks to DL? Really not that much. I'm sure it's more than offset by the incremental dollars DL gets from the DL credit card I have!
I guess that's why I remain unsure as to the logic of completely gutting both the SM and the Medallion program.
If DL wants to thin the ranks, as others have posted, it starts by stopping giving away MQM's left and right. I earn every MQM BIS, and while I recognise that I am not an HVC in the true sense of the word (i.e. top few percentage points of DL's customer base), I do think I have some "value" to DL on the range of T through F fares that I buy that have me flying around 50,000 miles a year BIS. Certainly for the relatively low cost to provide the benefits to keep me loyal, it just seems a bit unfathomable.
/end ramble.
I was able to clear but I think that the PLT and GLD pax using stickers didn't.
Mar 20, 2012, 3:18 pm
#498
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: Now just a lowly DL PM/1MM. This industry needs some competition. It's just not enjoyable anymore.
Posts: 3,543
Oh, nothing bad. As a matter of fact I came away very impressed and was a rather large DL fan. It was there that we were told 2011 was to be the "Year of the Customer".
The problem is, since then bad developments have outpaced good developments by a considerable margin, IMHO. It has been discussed here at length, so no need to beat it to death. But the DO was the high point. After that, the race to the bottom began.
The problem is, since then bad developments have outpaced good developments by a considerable margin, IMHO. It has been discussed here at length, so no need to beat it to death. But the DO was the high point. After that, the race to the bottom began.
Mar 20, 2012, 3:22 pm
#499
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Programs: | *G | STE | HGP ♦ | SPG Au | MR Au
Posts: 3,772
Oh, nothing bad. As a matter of fact I came away very impressed and was a rather large DL fan. It was there that we were told 2011 was to be the "Year of the Customer".
The problem is, since then bad developments have outpaced good developments by a considerable margin, IMHO. It has been discussed here at length, so no need to beat it to death. But the DO was the high point. After that, the race to the bottom began.
The problem is, since then bad developments have outpaced good developments by a considerable margin, IMHO. It has been discussed here at length, so no need to beat it to death. But the DO was the high point. After that, the race to the bottom began.
Well in this case, I would say, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I think everyone will be rushing for insurance sooner or later or just quit.
Mar 20, 2012, 3:23 pm
#500
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: Fallen DL DM (PM) 2MM
Posts: 4,783
And there are day/visit passes out there -- or at least there used to be. Tried to trade for one when She Who Must Be Obeyed was flying TATL on my residual AA miles.
Mar 20, 2012, 3:30 pm
#501
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
OK, just to put this rumor into perspective, there is also a rumor on A-net about DL leaving SkyTeam. I'm just saying. As for this particular rumor, maybe DL is going to do a GS type of thing like UA which is based on spend. CO had it (and it was set around $32K IIRC). It gave you privileges beyond the regular Platinum ones. Or DL could be giving out a greater MQM/RDM bonus for full fare Y, J, and F like the new UA is doing. But why do they need to make it harder to become Medallion? After all, they've kind of scaled back the benefits as it is.
Mar 20, 2012, 3:31 pm
#502
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CONUS
Posts: 474
This has been the mantra since the programs were merged. And for all the talk about going somewhere else, where to? The merger mania has taken away plenty of competition and there's more to come likely. The folks in the ATL GO know this damn well.
Mar 20, 2012, 3:32 pm
#503
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bye Delta
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Plat, Nat'l Exec Elite, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 16,273
As an aside, I took a look today at the number of folks currently on the upgrade list on UA for several routes and flights in the next few days.
It makes for sombre viewing. ORD-SFO hub to hub on a 319 with 8F seats, all full, and 54 on the upgrade list? ORD-IAH with 67 on the upgrade list? BOS-Anywhere - 40+ on list on almost every flight.
Conceivably, that means that the number of "Elites" who will miss their upgrade can't even be accommodated in the E+ section, so E- it is for some "Elites".
Even non hub-to-hub routes, upgrade lists run from the 20s to the 40s. The rare exceptions to the rule - Saturday leisure flights at off times into places like LAS or MCO. Other than that, it'd really look a bit grim to be a Silver or Gold (possibly even Plat) equivalent over at UA.
Time will tell what DL plans to do. Largely it will depend on the revenue based accrual and redemption rates, but I doubt DL would invest a ton of money reinventing the wheel unless there were clear benefits to them in reducing SM liabilities and overhauling (read: increasing) the amount of miles being required for redemptions.
As a humble GM, I still enjoy a fairly decent upgrade rate, and usually get a decent exit row or bulkhead seat on those flights I don't. Javabytes did an eloquent job articulating earlier what, I think, is the heart of a frequent flyer program for many of us. Most of us are fairly (very?) loyal to DL, and like Javabytes, I pay a higher fare, or put up with less than stellar connections, to maintain my benefits with DL which I feel is a worthwhile trade off.
True HVCs should indeed be recognised at DL, and that number of folks should be within the low single digit percentage of DL's customer base. That's not to say that for the remaining 15 or so% (I admit I'm guestimating here) of folks that have some form of Medallion status, whom aren't in that top couple of percentage points for being a true HVC, that there isn't merit to DL retaining some benefits.
Many post about "why should DL give you the perks". Well, why not? For me, I rarely check a bag (and I'd guess this is true of many/most Elites for majority of their flying, so it's not like there is a big loss in potential revenue here), I largely value getting an agent quickly when I need help, SkyPriority, and the occasional upgrade. An upgrade that - ultimately - is a seat that would otherwise go empty because no one wants to buy it, and anyone whom is "bigger/better/flys more/pays more" than me gets it ahead of me anyway. So what is the true cost of all these perks to DL? Really not that much. I'm sure it's more than offset by the incremental dollars DL gets from the DL credit card I have!
I guess that's why I remain unsure as to the logic of completely gutting both the SM and the Medallion program.
If DL wants to thin the ranks, as others have posted, it starts by stopping giving away MQM's left and right. I earn every MQM BIS, and while I recognise that I am not an HVC in the true sense of the word (i.e. top few percentage points of DL's customer base), I do think I have some "value" to DL on the range of T through F fares that I buy that have me flying around 50,000 miles a year BIS. Certainly for the relatively low cost to provide the benefits to keep me loyal, it just seems a bit unfathomable.
/end ramble.
It makes for sombre viewing. ORD-SFO hub to hub on a 319 with 8F seats, all full, and 54 on the upgrade list? ORD-IAH with 67 on the upgrade list? BOS-Anywhere - 40+ on list on almost every flight.
Conceivably, that means that the number of "Elites" who will miss their upgrade can't even be accommodated in the E+ section, so E- it is for some "Elites".
Even non hub-to-hub routes, upgrade lists run from the 20s to the 40s. The rare exceptions to the rule - Saturday leisure flights at off times into places like LAS or MCO. Other than that, it'd really look a bit grim to be a Silver or Gold (possibly even Plat) equivalent over at UA.
Time will tell what DL plans to do. Largely it will depend on the revenue based accrual and redemption rates, but I doubt DL would invest a ton of money reinventing the wheel unless there were clear benefits to them in reducing SM liabilities and overhauling (read: increasing) the amount of miles being required for redemptions.
As a humble GM, I still enjoy a fairly decent upgrade rate, and usually get a decent exit row or bulkhead seat on those flights I don't. Javabytes did an eloquent job articulating earlier what, I think, is the heart of a frequent flyer program for many of us. Most of us are fairly (very?) loyal to DL, and like Javabytes, I pay a higher fare, or put up with less than stellar connections, to maintain my benefits with DL which I feel is a worthwhile trade off.
True HVCs should indeed be recognised at DL, and that number of folks should be within the low single digit percentage of DL's customer base. That's not to say that for the remaining 15 or so% (I admit I'm guestimating here) of folks that have some form of Medallion status, whom aren't in that top couple of percentage points for being a true HVC, that there isn't merit to DL retaining some benefits.
Many post about "why should DL give you the perks". Well, why not? For me, I rarely check a bag (and I'd guess this is true of many/most Elites for majority of their flying, so it's not like there is a big loss in potential revenue here), I largely value getting an agent quickly when I need help, SkyPriority, and the occasional upgrade. An upgrade that - ultimately - is a seat that would otherwise go empty because no one wants to buy it, and anyone whom is "bigger/better/flys more/pays more" than me gets it ahead of me anyway. So what is the true cost of all these perks to DL? Really not that much. I'm sure it's more than offset by the incremental dollars DL gets from the DL credit card I have!
I guess that's why I remain unsure as to the logic of completely gutting both the SM and the Medallion program.
If DL wants to thin the ranks, as others have posted, it starts by stopping giving away MQM's left and right. I earn every MQM BIS, and while I recognise that I am not an HVC in the true sense of the word (i.e. top few percentage points of DL's customer base), I do think I have some "value" to DL on the range of T through F fares that I buy that have me flying around 50,000 miles a year BIS. Certainly for the relatively low cost to provide the benefits to keep me loyal, it just seems a bit unfathomable.
/end ramble.
Then stop all the ridiculous double and triple MQM promos, the MQM giveaways for transferring MR, and the "earn Platinum with six segments" nonsense.
Heck, even put better controls on your fares. Certainly there's technology out there capable of telling you that a $10 BOS-SAN fare is a mistake before you publish it.
Perhaps then, true HVCs will get their due, unprofitable faux Medallions will dry up, and there will still be something left for the guys in the middle to convince them to stick with DL.
Mar 20, 2012, 3:35 pm
#504
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CONUS
Posts: 474
With all due respect, LedgeT is a very credible contributor and I have no doubt that these changes are being worked on. The only question is whether they will be shelved as was done with the leaked changes to the UA program last year, which were somewhat similar in being revenue based.
David
David
Mar 20, 2012, 4:00 pm
#505
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
But the partners aren't going to go to a PWM system (at least not necessarily). If a FlyingBlue or SkyPass member wants to get to DEN, they'll need a DL domestic flight and their program will include it in their however many mile TATL/TPAC award, if DL makes it available. If DL doesn't have award buckets any more, how does that work? Since flights aren't priced by segment for revenue fares, how does DL value that DTW-DEN segment added on to BRU-CDG-DTW on AF?
Mar 20, 2012, 4:00 pm
#506
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: Formaldehyde Medallion DL DieMiles
Posts: 12,646
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vtWB4owdE
But enough levity. Just remember: Illegitimi non carborundum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimi_non_carborundum
Mar 20, 2012, 4:03 pm
#507
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,399
Mar 20, 2012, 4:04 pm
#508
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CONUS
Posts: 474
That's exactly what's going on. DL knows this is a massive change, and one that will be wildly unpopular (at least at first) - it's not an "enhancement" their own marketing people can take-on on their own. They need to hire big guns to try and sell customers on it.
Mar 20, 2012, 4:09 pm
#509
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,399
I find it ironic that the ads appearing on this thread are all for the DL Gold AmEx card with 30,000 bonus miles, although nothing is said about 25,000 being a free ticket.
Mar 20, 2012, 4:16 pm
#510
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: Formaldehyde Medallion DL DieMiles
Posts: 12,646
