Skymiles Change Rumor?
Mar 19, 2012, 8:47 pm
#271
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
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That's exactly the point. It's just water, but you can still twist it to sound threatening and get people to agree with you that it should be banned.
Just like you can do in a focus group.
Q (McKinsey recent MBA Grad): "Would you like to have better award availability?"
A (AmEx Holders): "Ooh, yes please!"
Never mind the fact that the awards are now going to cost far more, and you won't earn as many miles to begin with. Details be damned, we know what we want...
Just like you can do in a focus group.
Q (McKinsey recent MBA Grad): "Would you like to have better award availability?"
A (AmEx Holders): "Ooh, yes please!"
Never mind the fact that the awards are now going to cost far more, and you won't earn as many miles to begin with. Details be damned, we know what we want...
Mar 19, 2012, 8:51 pm
#272
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Mar 19, 2012, 8:55 pm
#273
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Mar 19, 2012, 8:59 pm
#274
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Mar 19, 2012, 9:02 pm
#275
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It makes sense to bring back the revenue-based 4th tier and still have miles for tiers 1-3. This works for UA quite well and I don't see how Delta could move to a completly revenue-based model.
I never understood why they started DM in the first place instead of enahncing the old revenue-based secret program
I never understood why they started DM in the first place instead of enahncing the old revenue-based secret program
Mar 19, 2012, 9:06 pm
#276
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diamonds who fly every week on LUT fares are not Delta's best customers
In fact they take upgrades away from folks who are better customers
I've said it before that you can become Diamond and spend less than $10,000 dollars a year and you can spend $100,000 and not be diamond
The current system is crazy, it doesn't drive revenue and rewards frequent flyers not profitable customers ---its the wrong customers from Delta's view
If delta has revenue tiers, then they would truely be rewarding their best customers from their stock holder perspective. A small percentage may leave but where will you go? The high fare folks won't leave, they will migrate to delta. If You could buy one round trip on delta and get gold by spending $14000 on this single ticket, then youd be more likely to choose delta
In fact they take upgrades away from folks who are better customers
I've said it before that you can become Diamond and spend less than $10,000 dollars a year and you can spend $100,000 and not be diamond
The current system is crazy, it doesn't drive revenue and rewards frequent flyers not profitable customers ---its the wrong customers from Delta's view
If delta has revenue tiers, then they would truely be rewarding their best customers from their stock holder perspective. A small percentage may leave but where will you go? The high fare folks won't leave, they will migrate to delta. If You could buy one round trip on delta and get gold by spending $14000 on this single ticket, then youd be more likely to choose delta
do you all remember This Interview?
Look at the last two questions. This has been a long way coming
it can also explain why the award calendar has shown zero improvement over the last X years while the revenue engine has been updated several times. It won't be all that difficult to incorporate a third and fourth column to say, for example, buy this flight for 100k SkyPoints (sm) in Y and 250K SkyPoints (sm) in J
also, mileage upgrades have been promised for online for a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing FCM banners with X dollars and/or Y SkyPoints for price points
at that point, i can also see the fare restrictions dropping out - which will be the enhancement brought to you by the new and improved the SkyPoints(sm) program
Look at the last two questions. This has been a long way coming
it can also explain why the award calendar has shown zero improvement over the last X years while the revenue engine has been updated several times. It won't be all that difficult to incorporate a third and fourth column to say, for example, buy this flight for 100k SkyPoints (sm) in Y and 250K SkyPoints (sm) in J
also, mileage upgrades have been promised for online for a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing FCM banners with X dollars and/or Y SkyPoints for price points
at that point, i can also see the fare restrictions dropping out - which will be the enhancement brought to you by the new and improved the SkyPoints(sm) program
DL will gush that this takes away most of the complaints about the award calendar and lack of 'low' awards as you'll be using points to buy the fare you see on a regular fare search.
But the devil will be in the details:
- What is the earn/spend ratio?
- What is the redeem/point value ratio?
- Do these become paid tickets in terms of refund/change rules?
- Is an AMEX dependent on the redeem/earn or just a factor (ie: earn 15% more points when using your SkyPeso AMEX)?
- How are partners factored in?
Potential positives to this:
- One way 'awards'
- That LAX-SFO $69 fare is bought with an appropriate amount of points vs the 25,000 SkyPeso award (if low is avail)
- In theory every flight becomes available for an award, just up to you if it's worth it to use points or pay cash
- Good riddance to the delta.dumb award engine
- Good riddance to 3 tier awards
Again, the devil will be in the details and value of these points. I'm keeping an open mind until I hear them.
Mar 19, 2012, 9:07 pm
#277
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
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I guess my "normal" LAS-SFO-YYC flight on UA just last week, nary a rioter in sight mind you, was an "abnormal" experience?
UA has it's issues right now, there is no doubt. Maybe someone more cynical than me might think this is a good time to float a trial balloon over at the mother ship and keep us thinking just how good we really have it....
Mar 19, 2012, 9:10 pm
#278
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Mar 19, 2012, 9:11 pm
#279
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
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As a UA customer about to hit 1MM status and convey 1K to my SO who has been suffering as a Delta Silver for years, I have no skin in the game here...but...a change this significant to the program that creates such an incredible devalution of miles and benefits, targeting those who have spent tens of thousands of the dollar accumulating miles and status over the years, is not grounds for a SaveSkyMiles2 campaign, but a class action lawsuit.
When this program change is announced (and it appears to be more fact than rumor), I would suggest you don't waste too much time on a public SSM campaign, but rather find yourselves a good set of lawyers who are willing to go for Delta's jugular.
The goal is not to earn damages (of course 99% of the damages will go to the lawyers), but if you want to undo these changes and bi**chslap Delta in the process, this is probably your only real option. There are plenty of attorneys in this forum who can probably offer advise and help the group network for the right lawyers, but I would suggest you take those discussions off this website and hold them elsewhere.
This sounds like Delta is declaring war on you - and since the majority of folks here are not in the position to simply pay up, you can either leave and go to UA where the grass is not necessarily greener, or over to AA who might become energized enough to go after the country's disillusioned DL and UA frequent flyers. I think you're better off getting a crew of lawyers to shove their feet up Delta's behind, and I don't think you'd have too tough a time finding some if these changes actually result in what folks here are thinking.
When this program change is announced (and it appears to be more fact than rumor), I would suggest you don't waste too much time on a public SSM campaign, but rather find yourselves a good set of lawyers who are willing to go for Delta's jugular.
The goal is not to earn damages (of course 99% of the damages will go to the lawyers), but if you want to undo these changes and bi**chslap Delta in the process, this is probably your only real option. There are plenty of attorneys in this forum who can probably offer advise and help the group network for the right lawyers, but I would suggest you take those discussions off this website and hold them elsewhere.
This sounds like Delta is declaring war on you - and since the majority of folks here are not in the position to simply pay up, you can either leave and go to UA where the grass is not necessarily greener, or over to AA who might become energized enough to go after the country's disillusioned DL and UA frequent flyers. I think you're better off getting a crew of lawyers to shove their feet up Delta's behind, and I don't think you'd have too tough a time finding some if these changes actually result in what folks here are thinking.
Mar 19, 2012, 9:13 pm
#280
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If LUT flyers were indeed a drag on DL, why do they keep offering the fares? Because they need those flyers to maximize profit per flight. A plane half full with Q and up fare pax probably loses money. Airlines need those LUT pax to fill the planes and maximize profit, because the incremental revenue falls straight to the bottom line. Now if they could fill the plane with Y pax, life would be great for them, but that rarely, if ever, happens.
If DL hates LUT flyers, just stop offering those fare buckets. Simple as that.
If DL hates LUT flyers, just stop offering those fare buckets. Simple as that.
i almost posted a new thread "who will get to 1,000,000 rollover first" I may do it this year and every time I look at the amount of rollover I have accumulated I actually laugh out loud.
Finally some sanity and understanding that devaluation by giving every man and his dog PM/DM status is being noticed big time. As stated, I can't wait for a revenue based program. All you $10,000 DM's can fly coach where if you think about rationally is where you belong.
Finally some sanity and understanding that devaluation by giving every man and his dog PM/DM status is being noticed big time. As stated, I can't wait for a revenue based program. All you $10,000 DM's can fly coach where if you think about rationally is where you belong.
Mar 19, 2012, 9:13 pm
#281
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
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There have been a lot of comments about how LUT flyers aren't profitable.
Realize that not all LUTs are created equal.
As an example, this week I'm flying ATL-YYZ on a T fare - $825
How can that be compared to a T fare I flew last week for the same number of miles but for $195?
Realize that not all LUTs are created equal.
As an example, this week I'm flying ATL-YYZ on a T fare - $825
How can that be compared to a T fare I flew last week for the same number of miles but for $195?
Mar 19, 2012, 9:30 pm
#282
Join Date: Jul 2011
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The same mass tort attorneys that sue drug companies might take a stab at it, but I don't see it going anywhere at all. I think we'd get more mileage taking our business elsewhere or ensuring that DL corporate knows what we think (which may have as much success as a class action lawsuit!).
Mar 19, 2012, 9:33 pm
#283
Join Date: Aug 2011
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The problem with this type of thinking (perhaps the lawyers amongst us could weight in here) is that the SM program has always, to my knowledge contained the verbage "These rules are subject to change at any time." As such a voluntary program whose rules and conditions specifies that they may do what they wish with it, I'm not sure that there is any ground for legal standing whatsoever. What would the claim be? "They changed the rules and devalued my miles that I worked so hard to earn by the very rule that said they could change the rules that I agreed to when I signed up for the SM program?"
The same mass tort attorneys that sue drug companies might take a stab at it, but I don't see it going anywhere at all. I think we'd get more mileage taking our business elsewhere or ensuring that DL corporate knows what we think (which may have as much success as a class action lawsuit!).
The same mass tort attorneys that sue drug companies might take a stab at it, but I don't see it going anywhere at all. I think we'd get more mileage taking our business elsewhere or ensuring that DL corporate knows what we think (which may have as much success as a class action lawsuit!).
Buy your ticket and expect your butt will end up in the exact seat you paid for. The rest is gravy.
And, in the light of consolidation, the gravy's lookin' mighty thin.
Mar 19, 2012, 9:34 pm
#284
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Austin, TX
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With the integration issues at UA I was having some second thoughts about leaving DL. Not anymore 
BTW, I heard the EXACT same "rumor" last year and posted about it here. In fact this mode of operation (quietly plan in the background and change the rules when they least expect it) is exactly why I left. UA has been completely up front about the changes but they are just plain choking on the systems integration piece. The DL game is going to change in a big way.
BTW, I heard the EXACT same "rumor" last year and posted about it here. In fact this mode of operation (quietly plan in the background and change the rules when they least expect it) is exactly why I left. UA has been completely up front about the changes but they are just plain choking on the systems integration piece. The DL game is going to change in a big way.
Mar 19, 2012, 9:35 pm
#285
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If this rumor comes to be reality, I can't say I'd be terribly surprised.
That said, as a mostly lower-fare flyer with occasional higher end fares up to and including paid J, I could see dropping a bunch of discretionary travel (wouldn't miss the TSA grope sessions), switching to more conference calls, and going to whatever airline offers the best price/schedule at any given moment. (eg: That $700+ T class ticket to YVR via SEA with a 4 hour layover I just bought could have been a n/s on AC instead.)
It's nice having competition in NYC.
In this crazy world where interchangeable airlines selling commodity products pull major changes without bothering to inform their customers in a timely and appropriate fashion while spouting on ironically about loyalty, it's about the people. The people who wouldn't be disappointed if I stayed home more.
That said, as a mostly lower-fare flyer with occasional higher end fares up to and including paid J, I could see dropping a bunch of discretionary travel (wouldn't miss the TSA grope sessions), switching to more conference calls, and going to whatever airline offers the best price/schedule at any given moment. (eg: That $700+ T class ticket to YVR via SEA with a 4 hour layover I just bought could have been a n/s on AC instead.)
It's nice having competition in NYC.
In this crazy world where interchangeable airlines selling commodity products pull major changes without bothering to inform their customers in a timely and appropriate fashion while spouting on ironically about loyalty, it's about the people. The people who wouldn't be disappointed if I stayed home more.