monitor

I am finding no difference at all in award availability between MIA and FLL. The only exception to this are the AF nonstops to CDG which take me to MIA for C awards at 100K.

javabytes

ATL-LAS. Let's give DL the advantage and start our search from their fortress hub. For August, 17 days in Low on UA (only 11 show up on the award calendar, but 6 more days have them if you actually click the dates to view flights). 7 on DL. For September? 23 days with saver economy on UA. 13 days with low awards on DL.

mooper

Are you logging in as an elite (i.e., searching Medallion inventory for DL) for both? I'm seeing a slightly higher count than you specified. Presuming your numbers are accurate, however, I wasn't suggesting there are *no* times that a peer airline will have more inventory; I was suggesting that if you take a broad sample of dates (close in, advance, weekends, weekdays) and routes, you'll see that DL has 25K awards about on par with peers overall. For a DL elite, that 25K will often get F seating. When 25K awards aren't available, 32.5K often is, and 40K will almost always do the trick. For some of their peers, often 50K is required and usually just for coach seating.

That said, everyone has their own patterns, and UA/AA/US might work better for some. In my case, I have a pretty varied redemption pattern domestically, and DL on *average* works out to be the best value by far, and that's not even factoring in the cost of acquiring the miles. A few years ago, UA seemed to be the general winner around peak periods, US on the east coast, and there were a few other niches where DL was inferior domestically, but now even those gaps seem to have narrowed.

javabytes

No, I am not logging in as an elite on either airline.

I've never had to pay 50k on United for coach seating. 50k gets me First Class a much greater portion of the time than 45k does on DL. All too often FC awards at 80k are just as common as Y at 40.

AA_EXP09

Also check BCN-NYC in C.
Everyone is equal on this one.
(EWR For UA, JFK for all other airlines)

mooper

Non-elite flyers might do better with 25K availability on someone other than DL, though probably not much better. My thesis is for elites flying wholly within the 48 states, where DL on balance gives the best award experience.

I think you're correct that 50K domestic F is more readily available on UA/AA/US than with DL for 45K, but that becomes relevant only if you want to redeem for guaranteed domestic F outside your window. If you're willing to risk it and you are mid-tier elite or above, 25K gives domestic F on DL much of the time, so no need to bother with the 45K availability. Or you can mix and match (use more on a competitive route where you are concerned about missing the upgrade.)

I was discussing Delta's competitiveness in the 48 contiguous states only.

Erasmus

Shhh! BCN and MAD are my favorite options to get across the pond when I can't find availability to gateway cities.

Sabai

Rather telling that a big global airline's FFP is only competitive in the Lower 48; Slippery Jeff will be disappointed, but probably not surprised, to learn this.

mooper

Global indeed, but the vast majority of their routes and revenues are wholly within the US, so being the best where they do most of their business might make sense.

monitor

Of course. Since I came over to DL a few years ago and have much experience in comparing, I have come to understand that this company is more focused on the steady business traveler than any of the others are.

They seem to stick to their mission of supplying comfort and perks which are more weighted in favor of the business traveler domestically and are looking mostly to attract the steady business of those who are not extremely price-sensitive on their international routes.

Internally, I do not think that there are many at DL who consider the leisure traveler to be much more than a "ham sandwich" whether he takes one trip a year or earns Medallion status. So this is the way I see it and certainly can live with it as long as I fit into the first category. When I retire, and that is not all that long a projection, I certainly will reconsider.

mnredfox

Well, you ask for non-cherry picked and of course you could always accuse me of this, but I'll give you a REAL example of a need I have. SFO-ATL, granted two hubs but one is UA and one is DL. Close in award, F, logged in as DM (so exactly the criteria you mooper always claim to have luck with).

SFO-ATL, anytime now though 1st 3 weeks in Aug (trying to go visit a sister):

DL: 7 low OB, 2 return
AA: 10 OB, 8 return
UA: 23 OB, 21 return

Well we all know the DL award calendar lies by our "Here we Go again" video/thread, so I checked every date one by one on DL. Of the 7 OB, 2 actually don't exist. They are both med. Of the 2 return, both as well are NOT low.

So updated results:
DL: 5 low OB, 0 return
AA: 10 OB, 8 return
UA: 23 OB, 21 return

Again, accuse me of what you may but this is a real life example I have to deal with. I think the repeated studies show this time and time again that DL is far far worse than other competitors (maybe exception US).

mooper

We often disagree, but you've always seemed honest. I don't doubt you. Good find - it happens that DL has relatively low availability for those three weeks. Change your target period to the month of August as a whole, however, and you see 13 low days both directions and DL looks relatively good again. Also, remember that the calendar display errors domestically are usually related to Medallion inventory and aren't always out of an elite's favor in terms of what is displayed (i.e., if you click through on a yellow/medium day on the calendar, you'll often find that low/saver is available.) And not to beat a dead horse, but remember again that as a DM, you're comparing what will be a seat in F when you go DL versus coach in the others.

It would be a pretty overwhelming task to get a very broad picture of elite availability to compare in a manner that accounts for different patterns and puts all airlines on fair footing. None of the studies I've seen have ever done this - there's always some substantial bias.

javabytes

UA also offers award ticket upgrades to elites who hold their co-branded credit card.

mooper

Correct. I should have mentioned that. Those UA upgrades aren't, however, as reliable as award upgrades for DL PMs and DMs especially. As a DM, I haven't missed a single award upgrade in many dozens of segments. AA and US have no such complimentary award upgrades available in any capacity.

mnredfox

Well for my sake and others, I sure hope this is a one off. Unfortunately hasn't been my experience lately but hope this luck changes.

I see what you're saying about late Aug, but of course not when I need it.