Flying_Duck

I just got off the phone after the most aggrevating conversation with a so-called Delta-Supervisor (lets call him "TF"), that I have ever had with a Delta staff member in my 20 years of being Delta mediallion, including being PM --> DM the last 15 years. Overall I am quite happy with Delta, usually understand their reasons for making decissions that annoy costumers knowing that I have always been able to work out sensible solutions to my sensible problems with various Delta staff over the years.

Setting:
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Purchased a ticket SLC-GVA in M-class upgraded to Z on 2 PMU's one month ago for $3629.20, Non-refundable, $250 in change fee, no written rules attached. The upgrade was for the transatlantic portion only, seated in economy from CDG-GVA.

Come 2/28/12 I happen to find out that a BC S-fare on the same routing, same times is 3.396.22. A quick math tells me that for $ 17.61 I can get the ticket issued in S (with the change fee), be seated in BC CDG-GVA-CDG taking the fare difference and the change fee into consideration.

$17 for a bottle of champagne each way for the one hour flight? ( ) not bad!!

Called the DM desk who transferred me to a Delta Agent (DA) at international re-issue desk. No problemo, cliketty-click and affirmation that I was aware I would lose my PMU's, we were down to the 4 digit security code on my AE for the $17.61 to do the re-issue --->

(DA): I am sorry Sir, I don't understand why it won't let me do it, can i put you on hold for a minute?
(FD): Sure <continuing to work with speaker phone on>
--> several minutes of Delta music
(DA): Sir, the reason "it" won't let me do it is because the fare rules say that you can only exchange to another ticket IF THAT TICKET IS MORE EXPENSIVE than the original ticket"
(FD): Tthat makes no sense, and I am actually paying you $17 more??
(DA): "Re-issue fee doesn't count, it is a matter of the base fare"
(FD): That sounds silly, where can I read these rules as they were not on the e-ticket and I didn't find it on my itinerary as when clicking "fare rules" it said "not available, call Delta" - I know it is non-refundable and that a change fee is involved.
(DA): "You can't read these rules, and yes, it is stated in the fare rules that you have to call DL for details, and that what I am doing: I am giving you those details"
(FD): "But you must read them from somewhere, unless you are making them up as we speak, can you please give me directions to obtain the fare rules in writing?"
(DA): "No I can not"
(FD): OK then, how about I change my ticket to a refundable fare, cancel my current ticket, then re-book the ticket in S- using the money from my refundable ticket - though why do that, why not just do the change and save both of us a lot of work?"
(DA): Sir, I am not going to argue with you about this, is there anything else I can do for you?
(FD): Do you have a supervisor I can speak to?
(DA): Yes, let me transfer you.
-------> 20 minutes of Delta music
(TF): I am "T" from coustomer support and I understand that you want to talk with a supervisor
(FD): that is correct
(TF): How can I help you?
(FD): <reviewing the conversation with DA>
(TF): That is correct, How can I help you?
(FD): For one thing, I would appreciate if you could direct me to a place where i can read the fare rules applying to this ticket
(TF): I can not, that is only accessible through our internal system, anything else I can do for you?
(FD): Well, can you help me re-issue this ticket as requested?
(TF): No, I can not, anything else?
(FD): Well, if I change the ticket to a refundable fare of, let's say $3629.21 to stay within the rules, and then change that ticket to a re-booked S-fare SLC-GVA creating a lot of work for both me and Delta, is that is OK with you?
(TF): If that is your choice, you can do that <making me suspect there is a trapt there somewhere>
(FD): So you can't help me?
(TF): No I can not, anything else I can do for you?
(FD): Do you have a supervisor
(TF): Yes, but that is an administrator that I am not going to connect you to - anything else I can do for you?
(FD): I must tell you I have never been spoken to in such a condescending way by any Delta employee in the 20 years I have been a high-level medaillion and I will escalate this to a complaint as it seems absolutely silly and unreasonable to subject a DM to this kind of nit-picking
(TF): I am ready for it - anything else?
(FD): No I get the picture - goodbye

Lesson#1
When asking for a supervisor, you apparently get a costumer support person who obviously have been trained to deal with unruly callers and doesn't give a hoot whether your "issue" is valid or whether you are Donald Duck or Flying Duck and probably is read off a script aimed at admitting/doing/listening to nothng!!

Lesson (or rather question) #2
Is it really legal to basically say: "The ticket you just purchased is subject to restrictions, you can not read these restrictions anywhere, and we are not going to give you anything in writing stipulating these rules. You have to call us to get these rules, and when we say that the rules state that your ticket can not be changed if the changed-to ticket is less expensive, you better believe us, even if you end up paying ADDITIONAL MONEY because the changed-to ticket is more expensive when adding the change fee.

Lesson #3 (Lesson for Delta):
All this talk about taking care of your DM, meeting them at plane side in NY, thanking them for their business etc. etc. is not worth anything as long as you have people like TF dealing with your DMs as he in in 5 minutes undid whatever goodwill and fuzzy feelings I had build up about Delta over years.

Good Grief Delta!, you must be doing spetacular and making ton's of money if you are able, as you were, to make a usually very mellow costumer who himself deals with intricate and costumer related issues every day get heated up the way TF and this episode heated me up.

And don't believe for a minute sitting in my filled 3-abreast middle seat in AF economy CDG-GVA seeing the champagne flow up-front is going to make me forget this little "we don't give a Shlt about you" episode!!

flymonthly

I completely sympathize with your ordeal. But I gotta know, did you end up upgrading to a refundable fare, cancelling, and rebooking? And it would seem to me that there should be some requirement to have the fare rules available for customers to read.

rylan

Call back and see if you get an agent who is actually helpful and will force it through.

If not, then I'd go for the change to refundable fare, cancel, and rebook.

One other thing... normally when you buy up to go from a coach to BE fare, (or from coach to refundable Y) the change fee is waived as well.

Sez_Who

Very simple. Hang up, call back. IME, the Diamond desk is generally excellent but every once in awhile, it just fails. Had one last night trying to book an intl multi-city. Never had this happen before but the phone agent couldn't find my first seg, which was an everyday flt to DTW. I repeated it three times with the Flt #, he still couldn't find it, then transferred me to IT.

So..... hang up, call back. Next agent found it immediately and 15 minutes later, the long itinerary was booked.

Flying_Duck

Excellent suggestion, and I did just that - same thing, the Diamond desk could not get around a re-issue and had to transfer me to the re-issue desk: same story: can't book you in S because of lower value, only in I for $2000 more. As I didn't want to repeat history, I thanked him for the information and hung up.

Before I change my current ticket to buy a more expensive ticket to some phantom city, after I which I would use that ticket to pay for a ticket booked in S on my original routing, I need to have someone here tell me that I am not going to end up with a useless ticket I can't change unless I buy an even more expensive ticket etc. (where is the trap?) i.e. what happens with the left-over money? - will they go into an e-ticket type certificate?

And how does Delta guard against such a move: Buy a non-refundable ticket that you no longer want to use (i.e as in this case), change it to a refundable ticket of higher value - what happens if you try to refund that ticket, as if able to be refunded you in essence have made your non-refundable ticket refundable!?

Oh, and I did ask the re-issue agent that if I did upgrade to "I" would they waive the change fee? and was told "NO", they only waive the change fee when upgrading to full F or full BC - So there!

It seems that Delta's distal intestinal orifice is being tightned parallel with the noose around it's travellers neck!!

RealHJ

That will not happen.

You can bet that this so-called "supervisor" has notated the PNR with a note something like this:
"Customer is an @SS. Do not help him, whatever he asks (valid or not), just say no and make it clear that his business is not appreciated."
in order to ensure that no one else would overrule "his decision."

That is what DL staff will usually do. As it reflects badly if someone overrules their (mistaken or valid, doesn't matter) decision, they will make all sorts of things to notate the PNR to ensure that anyone else would not even take the time to look into the matter to see was it valid and legitimate or not. You can bet that this "supervisor" has made sure that any other time the customer calls in, even before he's finished asking the question, the answer will be a resounding NO.

MichaelKade

Agree. Rep shop until you find someone that can/will do it.

MichaelKade

One more thing... Probably best to call 3 reps before escalating.

fti

+1. Also, if the OP speaks like he spells, I can understand why DL isn't very helpful

GYEWorldTraveler

How are you going to find someone that will help....most agents are going to stick with policy. Here are some hurdles facing you:

A) Many international itineraries require reissues to be to an equal or higher fare

B) You cannot just upgrade to a refundable fare and refund the ticket. If it was originally a nonrefundable ticket that portion will ALWAYS remain nonrefundable. The difference would be refundable. Unfortunately your $3600+ is locked in as a nonrefundable amount

C) RES Supervisors do not have supervisors that you can talk to. Asking for anything higher is a huge insult to them and will pretty much kill any chance at having them help....

D) Never tick off 2 different agents. I'm guessing there is now documentation in your PNR saying that psgr was rude and arrogant and not to help and that fare rules were explained and all fees apply.

E) CDG-GVA on AF will not have business class like you think of it. It is normal coach with the middle seat blocked off....and it is actually likely on City Jet so its even less special and a very short flight. Who cares if your BP says J or Y on that segment? Intra Europe flights don't have a premium cabin like we think of back here in the states. Same seat, same pitch, just an empty middle pretty much sums up the J experience over there. Not really worth the hassle of reissuing the ticket. The M fare still gets 150% MQMs and the only portion with the premium cabin you have the premium cabin seating.

TTT

I am guessing this is the rule you are running into (pulled from EF for SLC-GVA fare):

MAB2

The bolded section is what is happening with your fare.

exwannabe

Agreed, but the rules should be reasonably available to the customer. Buying an EF subscription to find the terms of a purchased item is absurd.

DL intentionally makes the fare rules hard to find.

. Not available off a receipt email.
. Not available from the ITN on dl.com.
. On the initial purchase off dl.com it is a 2 step click through that can have a minute delay where it looks like nothing is available.

This really is a disgrace.

Flying_Duck

That's no way to talk to an immigrant from 1983 who (obviously) is still struggling with this mighty difficult language called Aenglish!

flymonthly

+1
And even when you try to look at the rule prior to purchase, it sometimes says that it is unavailable and to call DL. This always happens to me trying to look at broken fares.

Flying_Duck

Yes, that is what I suspected.

There realy was nothing to lose by asking, the so called supervisor had already sized me up - atually before I started to speak!

Don't give me more credit than what I am due, I only ticked off one agent (I don't count the "supervisor/costumer sevice person). The second agent I spoke to I parted with on good terms. From the second agent reciting the record while he tried to make the switch, it was not my impression that there was anything bad written in the record - but who knows, maybe he was practicing acting!?

Yes, yes, I was waiting for this one. I am very familiar with the difference. Like anyone here, I have a significant dislike for spending any thime in coach, not helping that I am quite big, especially dislike the middle seat which you have no control over whether you are in or not being in coach on AF. At least you can stretch into the middle seat in BC & You have a smaller likelihood of having to be hassled about luggage and weight if on a BC ticket when checking in. & the food is better & And the champagne, don't forget the champagne!!.