Voucher Change Starting 15 DEC
Dec 14, 2011, 3:48 pm
#61
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 1,002
I'm really disappointed to see all these negative changes coming to Delta. Would be nice to see some real improvements that may come...
They talk about how they are investing $2 billion to improve customer experience...
Do you think they are improving it for Skymiles Members with the 72 hour cancellation rule?
How about Silver Medallion members with the loss of a checked bag for free?
Now vouchers can not be combined or transferrable....
These are some GREAT improvements...
Keep Climbing Delta
They talk about how they are investing $2 billion to improve customer experience...
Do you think they are improving it for Skymiles Members with the 72 hour cancellation rule?
How about Silver Medallion members with the loss of a checked bag for free?
Now vouchers can not be combined or transferrable....
These are some GREAT improvements...
Keep Climbing Delta
Dec 14, 2011, 4:02 pm
#63
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Look up - On a ✈ DELTA ✈ jet NOW!
Programs: Blogger & Delta Diamond Medallion Million Miler
Posts: 4,174
Question - EU rules and US rules
Wait. The rules say compensation. If you can not SPEND the compensation, is it still compensation?
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm
http://ehoganlovells.com/ve/7231j9492W7163D95998/VT=1
Plus DELTA must now TELL those who bump about the new rule btw:
c) When offering vouchers for free or reduced rate air transportation to passengers who voluntarily give up confirmed space on an overbooked flight, or who are involuntarily bumped and are offered such vouchers in lieu of DBC in the form of cash or a check, the carrier must first disclose all material restrictions applicable to the offer, such as administrative fees, advance purchase or capacity restrictions, and blackout dates (§§ 250.2b(c), 250.5(c) and 250.9(c)).
I would think only 1 per ticket would apply here!
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm
http://ehoganlovells.com/ve/7231j9492W7163D95998/VT=1
Plus DELTA must now TELL those who bump about the new rule btw:
c) When offering vouchers for free or reduced rate air transportation to passengers who voluntarily give up confirmed space on an overbooked flight, or who are involuntarily bumped and are offered such vouchers in lieu of DBC in the form of cash or a check, the carrier must first disclose all material restrictions applicable to the offer, such as administrative fees, advance purchase or capacity restrictions, and blackout dates (§§ 250.2b(c), 250.5(c) and 250.9(c)).
I would think only 1 per ticket would apply here!
Dec 14, 2011, 4:16 pm
#64
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: CMH
Programs: DL GM, HH Diamond
Posts: 390
Enormous 
times 1,000.
Seriously? You have to type the passenger name and cert number exactly... it's not like you can just guess random numbers. If this is still a problem, then have a random redemption code printed on the cert or displayed on the voucher online.
My suspicion is that this is NOT about stolen certs. Restricting combinability does nothing to address this. As others have surmised above, I would bet this is about revenue management. It keeps you from taking up expensive seats and paying nothing. If you have 3x$400 vouchers, and you want to spend them on $1,200 flights across the pond, you've still got to spend $2,400 out of pocket on DL to use them all.
If they want me to believe it's about stolen certs, I might be able to swallow non-transferability (though it is still a very bitter pill to swallow). But the fact that they will not be combinable is a farce.
times 1,000.Seriously? You have to type the passenger name and cert number exactly... it's not like you can just guess random numbers. If this is still a problem, then have a random redemption code printed on the cert or displayed on the voucher online.
My suspicion is that this is NOT about stolen certs. Restricting combinability does nothing to address this. As others have surmised above, I would bet this is about revenue management. It keeps you from taking up expensive seats and paying nothing. If you have 3x$400 vouchers, and you want to spend them on $1,200 flights across the pond, you've still got to spend $2,400 out of pocket on DL to use them all.
If they want me to believe it's about stolen certs, I might be able to swallow non-transferability (though it is still a very bitter pill to swallow). But the fact that they will not be combinable is a farce.
3 * $200 vouchers on one flight loses DL the same amount as 1 * $200 voucher on 3 individual flights...
Dec 14, 2011, 4:19 pm
#65
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DCA
Programs: DL DM, AA EXP, various hotel
Posts: 2,227
Really? If you were Delta, which would you rather? A customer get a $600 flight for free or get three $600 for $200 off each?
Dec 14, 2011, 4:34 pm
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bye Delta
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Plat, Nat'l Exec Elite, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 16,273
Not at all. 1 * $200 on 3 individual flights is far more preferable to the airline, as it guarantees either 3 * the remaining ticket price coming in the door, or that the vouchers will go unused. Say you need to travel on three separate trips that each cost $600. If you could use 3 vouchers on one ticket, you could buy the other two tickets on any airline (and might be far more inclined to if the price drops). Net to Delta is that they gave you one flight for free and potentially didn't make any money from your other tickets if you bought on another airline. If you can only use 1 voucher per ticket, you can either buy all 3 tickets on Delta at $200 off, which brings in $1,200 in cash, or you can buy on another airline in which case the voucher costs Delta nothing. Either way Delta gives away $600 in "free" travel, but with the latter method they are far better off.
Dec 14, 2011, 4:34 pm
#68
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Join Date: May 2005
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Just a side note - - As to comparing other airline's vouchers' rules - - I remember years ago taking a $600 VDB on CO. The GA told me that it's "Use it or lose it" - no residual. So, in this respect, DL is BETTER than CO. I can't speak for the other airlines. I asked, and was given 2 - $300 vouchers!
Last edited by davetravels; Dec 14, 2011 at 4:40 pm
Dec 14, 2011, 4:37 pm
#69
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: CMH
Programs: DL GM, HH Diamond
Posts: 390
Not at all. 1 * $200 on 3 individual flights is far more preferable to the airline, as it guarantees either 3 * the remaining ticket price coming in the door, or that the vouchers will go unused. Say you need to travel on three separate trips that each cost $600. If you could use 3 vouchers on one ticket, you could buy the other two tickets on any airline (and might be far more inclined to if the price drops). Net to Delta is that they gave you one flight for free and potentially didn't make any money from your other tickets if you bought on another airline. If you can only use 1 voucher per ticket, you can either buy all 3 tickets on Delta at $200 off, which brings in $1,200 in cash, or you can buy on another airline in which case the voucher costs Delta nothing. Either way Delta gives away $600 in "free" travel, but with the latter method they are far better off.
Dec 14, 2011, 4:40 pm
#70
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K (MM), DL, AA, AS, HHonors, SPG, Kimpton, Hyatt, IC PC, Marriott Titanium (LT PLT), Hertz PC
Posts: 7,231
I thought about doing this, but then realized that it would only be combinable with vouchers that I already have, which at this point in time total around $3.00. Sorry DL -- the non-combinability thing really sucks.
Dec 14, 2011, 4:43 pm
#71
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: Whatever's Cheapest, Accruing Miles, Redeeming for Premium Cabins, Not Chasing Status Unnecessarily
Posts: 2,264
For many of us it has no effect at all. I use any voucher I have whenever I buy a ticket, and I have far fewer vouchers than ticket buys.
I assume that you, and TTT, score many vouchers while traveling on the company dollar, and then use those for less frequent personal travel. If so, I feel your pain.
OTOH, if VDBs become harder to sell, it is a plus for me as the ECs have not changed in value for me.
I assume that you, and TTT, score many vouchers while traveling on the company dollar, and then use those for less frequent personal travel. If so, I feel your pain.
OTOH, if VDBs become harder to sell, it is a plus for me as the ECs have not changed in value for me.
Dec 14, 2011, 4:48 pm
#72
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,363
Wait. The rules say compensation. If you can not SPEND the compensation, is it still compensation?
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm
http://ehoganlovells.com/ve/7231j9492W7163D95998/VT=1
Plus DELTA must now TELL those who bump about the new rule btw:
c) When offering vouchers for free or reduced rate air transportation to passengers who voluntarily give up confirmed space on an overbooked flight, or who are involuntarily bumped and are offered such vouchers in lieu of DBC in the form of cash or a check, the carrier must first disclose all material restrictions applicable to the offer, such as administrative fees, advance purchase or capacity restrictions, and blackout dates (§§ 250.2b(c), 250.5(c) and 250.9(c)).
I would think only 1 per ticket would apply here!
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm
http://ehoganlovells.com/ve/7231j9492W7163D95998/VT=1
Plus DELTA must now TELL those who bump about the new rule btw:
c) When offering vouchers for free or reduced rate air transportation to passengers who voluntarily give up confirmed space on an overbooked flight, or who are involuntarily bumped and are offered such vouchers in lieu of DBC in the form of cash or a check, the carrier must first disclose all material restrictions applicable to the offer, such as administrative fees, advance purchase or capacity restrictions, and blackout dates (§§ 250.2b(c), 250.5(c) and 250.9(c)).
I would think only 1 per ticket would apply here!
Dec 14, 2011, 4:58 pm
#73
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,363
I believe that it actually is the expired amount that goes unused that is the big kicker.
This rule causes some redemption to get shoved forward in time. This has no effect on revenue (the certs are a liability), but does effect cash and therefor interest. So yes, the float on the cash does benefit DL some.
But let us guess that $200M gets pushed out 6 months by this. Then I would not be surprised if $50M gets "expired" by this move. And that is far more than the interest would have been (even assuming the rate on their bonds). The real numbers may be smaller, but I do suspect the expired cert issue is more value than the cash float.
Dec 14, 2011, 5:10 pm
#74
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bye Delta
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Plat, Nat'l Exec Elite, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 16,273
Wait. The rules say compensation. If you can not SPEND the compensation, is it still compensation?
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm
http://ehoganlovells.com/ve/7231j9492W7163D95998/VT=1
Plus DELTA must now TELL those who bump about the new rule btw:
c) When offering vouchers for free or reduced rate air transportation to passengers who voluntarily give up confirmed space on an overbooked flight, or who are involuntarily bumped and are offered such vouchers in lieu of DBC in the form of cash or a check, the carrier must first disclose all material restrictions applicable to the offer, such as administrative fees, advance purchase or capacity restrictions, and blackout dates (§§ 250.2b(c), 250.5(c) and 250.9(c)).
I would think only 1 per ticket would apply here!
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm
http://ehoganlovells.com/ve/7231j9492W7163D95998/VT=1
Plus DELTA must now TELL those who bump about the new rule btw:
c) When offering vouchers for free or reduced rate air transportation to passengers who voluntarily give up confirmed space on an overbooked flight, or who are involuntarily bumped and are offered such vouchers in lieu of DBC in the form of cash or a check, the carrier must first disclose all material restrictions applicable to the offer, such as administrative fees, advance purchase or capacity restrictions, and blackout dates (§§ 250.2b(c), 250.5(c) and 250.9(c)).
I would think only 1 per ticket would apply here!
Dec 14, 2011, 5:20 pm
#75
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: DL DM; Hertz Gold PC
Posts: 267
Not at all. 1 * $200 on 3 individual flights is far more preferable to the airline, as it guarantees either 3 * the remaining ticket price coming in the door, or that the vouchers will go unused. Say you need to travel on three separate trips that each cost $600. If you could use 3 vouchers on one ticket, you could buy the other two tickets on any airline (and might be far more inclined to if the price drops). Net to Delta is that they gave you one flight for free and potentially didn't make any money from your other tickets if you bought on another airline. If you can only use 1 voucher per ticket, you can either buy all 3 tickets on Delta at $200 off, which brings in $1,200 in cash, or you can buy on another airline in which case the voucher costs Delta nothing. Either way Delta gives away $600 in "free" travel, but with the latter method they are far better off.
Soon we will be informed, that maximum amount of any voucher couldn't exceed, let's say, $100
. So, in this case simple VDB ($400) will produce 4 more bookings of the same PAX on DL, or (which is also very good for DL) some of them will just expire.