Delta FA's to remain union free

Old Nov 20, 11, 9:55 am
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Originally Posted by NWA/Deltaflygirl View Post
I for one will be glad when it's ALL settled, no more 'premerger this or that.' I have friends and co-workers who were once NW Oreint, Pan Am, and Hugues Air west, and a myriad of other Airlines that are now part of Delta, and while it's great to be proud of where you came from (I still sport my office NWA pin proudly) it shouldn't hinder us from going forward as what we are - ONE great airline.
^
Couldn't have said it better myself!
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Old Nov 20, 11, 10:10 am
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Fly_Delta_Jets View Post
^
Couldn't have said it better myself!
And yet this thread still continues.

^^^^^^^^

Ok we get it. Now comes the LGA Slot swap auction finishing up soon.

Turns out they are still working on LGA transit issues as well with final proposals for 2013.

By that time, new Delta jets, multiple key terminals finished, non unionized staff, LGA swapover, and mods on the fleets should be finished I presume as well.

Sounds good to me.

^^:-:

Last edited by adamj023; Nov 20, 11 at 10:16 am
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Old Nov 20, 11, 3:31 pm
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Originally Posted by adamj023 View Post
In the case of Delta, clearly the outcome was the right outcome, and those corrupt political appointees never saw the light of day. You know who was at fault and why.
Disagree that it was the 'right' outcome, it was the just outcome as the majority favored it. To deem it 'right' is denying that others views are allowable.
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Old Nov 20, 11, 3:56 pm
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Vuelos View Post
Disagree that it was the 'right' outcome, it was the just outcome as the majority favored it. To deem it 'right' is denying that others views are allowable.
Not surprisingly someone pro union finally comes out of the woodwork.

Actually the opposite is true. Unions seek to suppress the non union members of their rights in exchange for forcing membership including annual dues to the head of these corrupt organizations. Such have included bribes, union heads making loads of money off the backs of union members and so on and so forth. I can go on and on with specific examples which have happened time and time again including what went on at Northwest before the merger and why Delta was the superior carrier and superb corporate culture. There are numerous examples of this in case studies involving the different airlines for those involved in higher level studies for those seeking their own interest in the aviation markets.

I can go on with more specific examples, but in regards to Delta as Ive said before it was the right move and it makes me respect them that much better as a company.

^ Delta! That is what matters.

As a consumer of choice, I choose not to unionized labor whenever possible. Positive reinforcement is a very good thing indeed when good happens.

While Delta is now larger as a carrier over say a non unionized JetBlue with more flights overall, it is finally coming to grips with the internal issues which have hurt the legacy carriers for so long.

Last edited by adamj023; Nov 20, 11 at 4:13 pm
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Old Nov 20, 11, 4:11 pm
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Originally Posted by adamj023 View Post
Not surprisingly someone pro union finally comes out of the woodwork.
I'm as anti-union as they come but fully agree with vuelos' point.

A vote was had. Slightly more people voted yes than no. It doesn't mean that one side is right or wrong. Everyone has their own viewpoints that they are entitled to.

As I said upthread, I had several friends that voted yes, and several that voted no. I don't think any less or more of them because of how they voted - it impacts them a whole hell of a lot more than any of us Medallions/customers on this thread.
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Old Nov 20, 11, 4:53 pm
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Originally Posted by mersk862 View Post
I'm as anti-union as they come but fully agree with vuelos' point.

A vote was had. Slightly more people voted yes than no. It doesn't mean that one side is right or wrong. Everyone has their own viewpoints that they are entitled to.

As I said upthread, I had several friends that voted yes, and several that voted no. I don't think any less or more of them because of how they voted - it impacts them a whole hell of a lot more than any of us Medallions/customers on this thread.
"I don't think any less or more of them because of how they voted"

I do.
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Old Nov 20, 11, 6:00 pm
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Originally Posted by mersk862
I don't think any less or more of them because of how they voted"

Originally Posted by adamj023 View Post
I do.
According to the FAA, the Pilot in Command and the Dispatcher are jointly responsible for the safe and efficient conduct of the flight. With that in mind, it seems incongruous that you would set foot on any jet under the operational control of Delta Pilots and Dispatchers given your lowered opinion of them.
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Old Nov 20, 11, 7:08 pm
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Originally Posted by Down3Green View Post
According to the FAA, the Pilot in Command and the Dispatcher are jointly responsible for the safe and efficient conduct of the flight. With that in mind, it seems incongruous that you would set foot on any jet under the operational control of Delta Pilots and Dispatchers given your lowered opinion of them.
Some people just don't quit. I never said anything regarding Delta's fine pilots and Dispatchers.

If I wanted to go after pilots, it would be the pilots who were diciplined from the Northwest side who were either using a personal laptop and/or arguing over practices on a Northwest flight and over flew their stop which everyone knew about.

We were talking a union vote regarding flight attendents. I didn't mean that the people who voted pro union are necessary bad people, just that being pro union usually means they are barking up the wrong tree and don't fully understand what they are getting into because of how unions work. I respect independent minded workers and thinkers who contribute to an organization with the best of their abilities. Not ones who beat the union drum.

Ok I am gone here. The unionizers are coming out now.

Only late to this thread did the unionizers show up with the attack unfortunately.

Last edited by adamj023; Nov 20, 11 at 7:15 pm
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Old Nov 20, 11, 8:03 pm
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Originally Posted by adamj023 View Post
Not surprisingly someone pro union finally comes out of the woodwork.
No, someone who doesn't discriminate comes out of the woodwork. I'm more anti-union than most anyone on here. HOWEVER, the issue is that I don't disparage people for their choices.

READ exactly what I wrote... where did I say I agreed? :rollseyes:

Originally Posted by adamj023 View Post
I can go on with more specific examples, but in regards to Delta as Ive said before it was the right move and it makes me respect them that much better as a company.
You realize that DELTA had nothing to do with remaining non-union other than educating its employees.

Originally Posted by adamj023 View Post
While Delta is now larger as a carrier over say a non unionized JetBlue with more flights overall, it is finally coming to grips with the internal issues which have hurt the legacy carriers for so long.
What is that? You realize that DELTA has been a larger carrier than B6 for a long time.

Originally Posted by mersk862 View Post
I'm as anti-union as they come but fully agree with vuelos' point.

A vote was had. Slightly more people voted yes than no. It doesn't mean that one side is right or wrong. Everyone has their own viewpoints that they are entitled to.

As I said upthread, I had several friends that voted yes, and several that voted no. I don't think any less or more of them because of how they voted - it impacts them a whole hell of a lot more than any of us Medallions/customers on this thread.
^

Originally Posted by adamj023 View Post
"I don't think any less or more of them because of how they voted"

I do.

Does this describe you?


A person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance?

Originally Posted by adamj023 View Post
Only late to this thread did the unionizers show up with the attack unfortunately.
You are the one who attacked kiddo @:-)
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Old Nov 21, 11, 1:24 am
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I'm excited for what this means for the Seattle-based flight attendants. Both groups - premerger Northwest and Delta - are fantastic folks, and I love flying with either.

This is great news for the PMDL attendants in particular: my understanding is that their presence in SEA is very small (~<75 F/As) and they had been stuck more or less only grinding out SEA-ATL round trips, since the PMNW group was so much larger and flights couldn't have mixed crews. Now, they'll be able to bid for other routes and work together on the international flights with their PMNW colleagues.

And of course for the PMNW folks, I imagine the payraise will be a welcome "enhancement" too

Some of my best stories of F/A professionalism come from the SEA-based crews. From various conversations, both groups seem legitimately excited to be able to work together with the other, and politics of union organization aside, I'm glad to hear that can finally happen now.
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Old Nov 21, 11, 6:06 am
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Originally Posted by BenA View Post
I'm excited for what this means for the Seattle-based flight attendants. Both groups - premerger Northwest and Delta - are fantastic folks, and I love flying with either.

This is great news for the PMDL attendants in particular: my understanding is that their presence in SEA is very small (~<75 F/As) and they had been stuck more or less only grinding out SEA-ATL round trips, since the PMNW group was so much larger and flights couldn't have mixed crews. Now, they'll be able to bid for other routes and work together on the international flights with their PMNW colleagues.

And of course for the PMNW folks, I imagine the payraise will be a welcome "enhancement" too

Some of my best stories of F/A professionalism come from the SEA-based crews. From various conversations, both groups seem legitimately excited to be able to work together with the other, and politics of union organization aside, I'm glad to hear that can finally happen now.
This is great. I think some of the flights have been mixed, but might be mistaken. Long story I will try to make short.

A few months back was flying a morning SEA-ATL. Boarding was continuously delayed because one FA had not yet shown up. An off-duty FA agreed to help so we could board ^ (she was I a PMNW as you will realize in a moment).

We boarded and she helped with taking coats and offering PDB. After boarding was done and we were still waiting for the FA, another lady stormed onto the plane (I'm not exaggerating), took the off-duty FA into the front galley and the first words out of her mouth while pointing her finger to the off-duty were, "I want you to listen and not talk. No, I said I want you to listen and not talk." It just went downhill from there and was in clear view and audible to some of the passengers, as well as rather unprofessional. I was in 1B.

One of the other FAs came over and stated that "She did the right thing for the passengers so they could board." She then continued on that "this is what we do at Delta. This is what we have always done at Delta. We do what's right and help each other." The lady who came onto the plane (union manager?) literally just ignored what she was saying and didn't even bother to look at her. That gave me the impression that this other FA was PMDL, but could be mistaken.

As you can imagine, it left a very negative impression on me regarding their union.

And I agree, some of the best crews I have flown with have been in and out of SEA.
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Old Nov 21, 11, 6:31 am
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Originally Posted by adamj023 View Post
"I don't think any less or more of them because of how they voted"

I do.
Ah yes - your pages of useless, pointless ramblings have not ended. Again - you find yourself out of your league.

It is nice to see you have stuck to shorter, more pointed sentences this time. Not only have you made it possible to comprehend what you are trying to say, but you have also managed to make it perfectly clear the type of person you are in no more than 3 letters.

Keep on fighting the fight AdamJ - I'm sure everyone on here is listening. I'm surprised you haven't brought DL IT, the AirTrain, SkyTrax ratings or the exceptional level of service at JFK into this conversation. Maybe you have - just please quit polluting our board.
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Old Nov 21, 11, 6:46 am
  #103  
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Originally Posted by pitbulllover View Post
We boarded and she helped with taking coats and offering PDB. After boarding was done and we were still waiting for the FA, another lady stormed onto the plane (I'm not exaggerating), took the off-duty FA into the front galley and the first words out of her mouth while pointing her finger to the off-duty were, "I want you to listen and not talk. No, I said I want you to listen and not talk." It just went downhill from there and was in clear view and audible to some of the passengers, as well as rather unprofessional. I was in 1B.

One of the other FAs came over and stated that "She did the right thing for the passengers so they could board." She then continued on that "this is what we do at Delta. This is what we have always done at Delta. We do what's right and help each other." The lady who came onto the plane (union manager?) literally just ignored what she was saying and didn't even bother to look at her. That gave me the impression that this other FA was PMDL, but could be mistaken.
That was a GREAT off duty FA you had to do that. Why would someone yell at an employee going out of their way like that? By the off duty FA doing that it kept many passengers happy (who are responsible for paying their pay) and left a good image of their employer and FA's in general.

In that case I would have definitely given the off duty FA a job well done certficiate if I had one and emailed Delta telling them how lucky they are to have employees like her.
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Old Nov 22, 11, 4:48 am
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What I gathered so far...

Yes, the PMNW FAs did receive parity with the PMDL FAs in pay. But, so far that's it.

The PMNW FAs will continue to fly under their contract rules and PMDL FAs will continue to fly under their DL work rules.

PMNW FAs will not be giving up their contract until both groups are finally merged as one. It doesn't look like the two groups will be merged until approximately until May 2012. It will take months for DL to be able to get future flying straightened out. Which bases need to be closed, merging groups in bases that exist for both groups. Which bases will be able to handled future flying. Which bases need to be increased in size or decreased in size. And also to get the FAs into bases.

While the PMNW FAs are making a bit more money, both groups are still flying under concessionary wages. Nobody is making the money that we used to make. So far, no one is getting raises, only restoration in bits and pieces.

Both groups are hoping that DL will take some of the good contractual language from the PMNW FA contract and add it to the DL work rules.
Example, PMNW FAs are paid for actual hours flown where as PMDL FAs are paid by averaging flight hours. The PMNW FAs generally make more money though where paid less before the 19th. Holiday pay is more in the contract than in the work rules. Rest rules are more favorable in the contract than in the work rules. Duty day limitations are more favorable in the contract than in the work rules. Extended duty pay is also more favorable in the contract than in the work rules.

It will be interesting to see how it all works out.
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Old Nov 22, 11, 8:02 am
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Originally Posted by NWAFA View Post
It will be interesting to see how it all works out.
Agreed. If Delta managers are smart they will take the best of both to keep the "toldja so's" from winning the arguments about if the union provided benefits... Because god knows there will be posturing from union organizers seeking a foot back in the door once that's permissible.
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