PRWeezer

^ I think it's an issue of the enemy you know vs. the enemy you don't. For example, has there ever being a significant, internal effort on the part of DL FAs to unionize? None of these efforts were successful, nor were the votes as close IIRC. The AFA admits it has spent millions of dollars, from their members' dues, trying to get into Delta. Were those efforts motivated by an outspoken need for better working conditions from inside the DL ranks, or were they motivated by the potential financial payoff?

I can only hope the language and attitude of the AFA press release is not typical of their general membership, and everyone can move on via a smooth transition. Unfortunately, I expect there will be bumps in the road coming from both sides in an ongoing us vs. them debate. I also expect we'll see too many FT posts about "can you believe what I overheard the FAs griping to each other?" in the future. As our kindergarten teachers used to say, everybody play nice!

adamj023

Since the new rules kicked in, this will make Delta a fabulous carrier from JFK and LGA. It will be exciting for the new Terminals to kick in as well. Lots of good stuff to look forward to from this carrier. Union baggage is still ever present on some other carriers which are not as well run right now.

RustyC

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I do remember the reputation Delta USED to have in the labor market. Back when I was in college it was a really sterling one, with satisfied employees and tons of local coverage when they bought that "Spirit of Delta" plane (which must be getting long in the tooth by now, if they're still flying it).

Given all that's happened since, starting with the Mullin regime, I think the FAs are crazy not to unionize. The union doesn't have to be confrontational necessarily (just look at Southwest), but it's just too clear that depending on management benevolence these days is a foolish gamble. Top management can and do change abruptly (Mullin showed that, someone from outside the culture), and without workers having leverage the shareholders and Wall Street may push theirs. Pilots have done a better job than other employee groups in "giving what they need, not what they want" because of the union, even though it got them a lot of petty resentment.

Without a union the best protection the FAs would have is what unions at other airlines negotiate, as that has been a major factor keeping Delta in check. If all airlines were like DL, even more of the cuts would be coming out of employees' hides than are already, and you'd have upper management and Wall Street openly declaring a race to the bottom.

adamj023

http://www.qchron.com/news/union-thr...cc4c03286.html

Locally in Queens, some children will experience their first union strike in life. While its unrelated to Delta (which is an airline which serves this market), it is just an example how these thugs need to be stopped.

Kudos to Delta for a good job and preventing situations like these from occuring in the first place.

RustyC

They aren't going to just roll over and have their job taken away, and it's a bit naive to expect otherwise. OTOH, compared to school bus drivers, private-sector unions have to fight a bigger greed factor.

For a cautionary tale of where Delta FAs could be headed, just look at ValuJet (which was folded into AirTran) and the early treatment there.

Fly_Delta_Jets

OT, but the Spirit now resides at the Delta Museum at Delta's HQ in ATL. It's a great place to spend a few hours learning about the history of DL, if you're in to that kind of stuff--they also have a pretty cool gift shop with some awesome DL swag! http://www.deltamuseum.org

-Travis

jamesteroh

^ I also try to support non-union business as much as possible.

Yaatri

Whether the company acquiring another company is bound to take over lobour contract obligations without any modification is a matter of negotiation. The combined set of employees were given a chance to express their collective will which rejected unionisation. The legal reality is that DL did not emply coercive tactics. If DL did, the AFA failed to prove that.
In general, not every aspect of a contract is binding. For example, I could have a contract with an employee that requires them to to be my slave. It would not be enforceable. Or I could blsckmsil my employer into signing a contract that I could not be fired under any circumstances. Of course, the labour being acquired would like to have their contract honoured by the new owner. That's about it. The party with which contract was entered into no longer exists.

I am not against unions. I also believe the issue being discussed is a matter between PMNW FA's and Delta. What we believe or want is irrelevant.

mersk862

Thanks for clarifying...most of my information comes from PMNW friends, who aren't as versed in what the PMDL rules are, etc. - I'll admit most of my information (on both sides) is coming from the PMNW workforce and what they hear (whether or not it's 100% true, or what someone who is trying to convince them to one side or the other is a whole separate issue...).

TTT

Does anyone know how this will impact the intra-Asia flying? Iirc, the AFA had clauses in their contract that required x number of AFA FAs on each flight. I wonder if this will change now.

3Cforme

The relative size of the acquired union-represented workforce is pertinent; below that 35% threshhold the AFA would have needed to secure union cards from sufficient numbers of origin-DL FAs to be able to request an election.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...ares%20Charges

SOBE ER DOC

Well, the last time we had this discussion on the board I posted a rather critical assessment of the NW FA's and why I felt the union served as a shield for mediocrity. I received a PM from someone who told me exactly how much physical harm they would do to me if they ever met me in person. Always the mature road: if you can't win your case on merit, threaten physical violence.

jamesteroh

And the really sad thing is the person that PM'd you (assuming it was a PMNW FA) doesn't realize YOU pay their salary.

adamj023

I did something similar when Verizon went on strike. I was not threatened with force however but it was clear others did not like my viewpoints.

Needless to say they resolved the strike. Remember, there are more of us than them and any threat against us and we can have these folks who try to take us out, taken out themselves if and when necessary before they even get close enough to try when there is imminent danger. I didn't mean to take this thread to the political level however.

In the case of Delta, clearly the outcome was the right outcome, and those corrupt political appointees never saw the light of day. You know who was at fault and why.

There have been instances where the line has been crossed and people have been hurt or even killed in regards to people standing up for those trying to do the right thing.

Gotta give credit here where credit is due, which was done. Nothing more to say on this thread really.

TravisMT81

^^^^^^