Delta FA's to remain union free

Old Nov 19, 11, 11:16 am
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Great News!

Great news and not shocking . . .

DL was non-union before the merger so you can count on that side staying status-quo and the NWA unions were an absolute waste of skin . . you can count on at least 50% of ex-NW voting them out (or choosing no union).

Not a statement on unions in general; but, simply my experience having been a dual union member at NW. I have worked for two non-union carriers (current as well) and two union carriers. The largest difference are that I experienced 3 strikes at union carriers which accomplished absolutely nothing.

I will take non-union ANY DAY.
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Old Nov 19, 11, 11:44 am
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Originally Posted by idriveuride View Post
Great news and not shocking . . .

DL was non-union before the merger so you can count on that side staying status-quo and the NWA unions were an absolute waste of skin . . you can count on at least 50% of ex-NW voting them out (or choosing no union).

Not a statement on unions in general; but, simply my experience having been a dual union member at NW. I have worked for two non-union carriers (current as well) and two union carriers. The largest difference are that I experienced 3 strikes at union carriers which accomplished absolutely nothing.

I will take non-union ANY DAY.
^ And the PMNW's should be grateful they are still employed. They were HIRED by NW NOT DELTA. Delta ACUIRED them, they did not hire them. The company that hired them is no longer in existance. They need to play by the rules of the company that ACQURIED them.
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Old Nov 19, 11, 12:02 pm
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Magnifico!!
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Old Nov 19, 11, 1:00 pm
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Originally Posted by jamesteroh View Post
^ And the PMNW's should be grateful they are still employed. They were HIRED by NW NOT DELTA. Delta ACUIRED them, they did not hire them. The company that hired them is no longer in existance. They need to play by the rules of the company that ACQURIED them.
When you acquire a company, you acquire its obligations and contracts. When DL and NWA merged, Delta became responsible for all NWA contracts. That included labor contracts.

The AFA was entitled to have a representation election. The vote was quite close. I'm rather stunned that the interference charges were dismissed, given that the current administration and its appointees are quite friendly to organized labor.

In any case, it is good news for the PMNW FAs that will be getting substantial raises, though they may not be as happy with having reserve days.

David
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Old Nov 19, 11, 1:22 pm
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Originally Posted by DiverDave View Post
When you acquire a company, you acquire its obligations and contracts. When DL and NWA merged, Delta became responsible for all NWA contracts. That included labor contracts.

The AFA was entitled to have a representation election.
There was an obligation to hold an election on representation - with the timing set by the union(s), not company - only because the union-represented fraction of the combined labor force of the specific work group exceeded a legal threshold. Were now FA-union-free Delta to acquire a significantly smaller airline - let's say Alaska Airlines - there would be no obligation to conduct an election: the AS FA's would automatically lose union representation. The whole 'DL became responsible for all NW contracts' line of thinking oversimplifies the relevant labor law.

Last edited by 3Cforme; Nov 20, 11 at 2:38 am
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Old Nov 19, 11, 1:26 pm
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
There was an onligation to hold an election on representation - with the timing set by the union(s), not company - only because the union-represented fraction of the combined labor force of the specific work group exceeded a legal threshold. Were now FA-union-free Delta to acquire a significantly smaller airline - let's say Alaska Airlines - there would be no obligation to conduct an election: the AS FA's would automatically lose union representation. The whole 'DL became responsible for all NW contracts' line of thinking oversimplifies the relevant labor law.
Delta has my full support. ^^^
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Old Nov 19, 11, 1:36 pm
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Originally Posted by hazelrah View Post
Divide et impera

Divide and conquer
Seriously?!?

At the risk of receiving (not from you, but from some rather militant union supporters on here) yet another private message threatening me with physical harm for daring to speak out against unions...I have to say this is totally ridiculous.

EVERY time a ruling falls against a union there is a conspiracy to undermine the fabric of collective bargaining. I got news for you folks...one of the most pro-union administrations in recent history has said that DL did not engage in anti-union behavior. There...it's done...get over it.

My suggestion to the folks who wanted union representation and didn't get it: look for opportunities to work with a unionized carrier and go for it. No one will think less of you for heading in a direction that aligns with your personal and professional perspectives on the work place.

Again, as someone who grew up in a stridently union household and who supports the right of collective bargaining I have to say it's time for the AFA to grow up and move on.
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Old Nov 19, 11, 1:42 pm
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Originally Posted by SOBE ER DOC View Post
Seriously?!?

At the risk of receiving (not from you, but from some rather militant union supporters on here) yet another private message threatening me with physical harm for daring to speak out against unions...I have to say this is totally ridiculous.

EVERY time a ruling falls against a union there is a conspiracy to undermine the fabric of collective bargaining. I got news for you folks...one of the most pro-union administrations in recent history has said that DL did not engage in anti-union behavior. There...it's done...get over it.

My suggestion to the folks who wanted union representation and didn't get it: look for opportunities to work with a unionized carrier and go for it. No one will think less of you for heading in a direction that aligns with your personal and professional perspectives on the work place.

Again, as someone who grew up in a stridently union household and who supports the right of collective bargaining I have to say it's time for the AFA to grow up and move on.
Why would someone PM you and not me since I have always been steadfastly anti union.

This ruiling makes Delta as an airline that much better and more competitive against other players. Simple as that. Its good for everyone around even without getting into union antics.
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Old Nov 19, 11, 1:59 pm
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anyone care to divuldge the cost of union dues a FA pays a year?
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Old Nov 19, 11, 2:55 pm
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Originally Posted by nypdLieu View Post
anyone care to divuldge the cost of union dues a FA pays a year?
$43.00 a month.
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Old Nov 19, 11, 3:29 pm
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Originally Posted by flargley View Post
Unions good, unions bad, whatever; at least now there maybe won't be so much unprofessional whining from PMNW FAs. It's over, get over it. Integrate.
Originally Posted by jamesteroh View Post
^ And the PMNW's should be grateful they are still employed. They were HIRED by NW NOT DELTA. Delta ACUIRED them, they did not hire them. The company that hired them is no longer in existance. They need to play by the rules of the company that ACQURIED them.
Let's give the hard-working PMNW FA's some respect here: As a PMNW customer I'd like to stress that most FA's were professional and did a generally excellent job. As with PMDL, there are a few bad apples here and there, but they are a small minority.

I'd rather you direct your scorn to the AFA Union and it's leadership, not the rank & file PMNW FA's. I'm happy they are getting raises and freed from a union that didn't always act in the best interests of its members, Company and customers.

I hope Delta can now put more resources into it's inflight product (ie: keeping water bottles & better cocktails) than dealing with the AFA and legal issues.
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Old Nov 19, 11, 3:48 pm
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Originally Posted by itsaboutthejourney View Post
Let's give the hard-working PMNW FA's some respect here: As a PMNW customer I'd like to stress that most FA's were professional and did a generally excellent job. As with PMDL, there are a few bad apples here and there, but they are a small minority.

I'd rather you direct your scorn to the AFA Union and it's leadership, not the rank & file PMNW FA's. I'm happy they are getting raises and freed from a union that didn't always act in the best interests of its members, Company and customers.

I hope Delta can now put more resources into it's inflight product (ie: keeping water bottles & better cocktails) than dealing with the AFA and legal issues.
There were some great PMNW FA's. It's the ones that wouldn't do a PDB service ad filed complaints over petty things like not having size 28 designer dresses and not being allowed to use carts in F that gave the good ones a bad name.
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Old Nov 19, 11, 3:51 pm
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Originally Posted by jamesteroh View Post
^ And the PMNW's should be grateful they are still employed. They were HIRED by NW NOT DELTA. Delta ACUIRED them, they did not hire them. The company that hired them is no longer in existance. They need to play by the rules of the company that ACQURIED them.
The ignorance in the content this post knows very few bounds. DiverDave was correct. The union's contract had a successorship clause that would ensure the contract and its protections remained in force in the event of a merger.

3Cforme--without checking my RLA "bible," that minimum number in a normal representation effort is 35% of the combined workforce. I don't think that number applies in a merger/takeover of two different sized carriers--once a "single carrier" declaration is made by the NMB, they will usually call an election.

The legal requirements for the NMB to overturn the vote results and decertification are pretty well spelled out within the Railway Labor Act and in its associated case law. The evidence would have to prove an institutional effort was made by DL to "taint the laboratory conditions" of the election. This must be proved in a prima faice manner--with very few doubts. Any individual actions by employees are not included. Even with a sympathetic administration and board the case would've likely gone to court and lost.

What's the best news out of all this? There is now a one year bar period on any organizing activity at the airline! We won't have to have this argument again until November of 2012!
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Old Nov 19, 11, 4:17 pm
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I for one will be glad when it's ALL settled, no more 'premerger this or that.' I have friends and co-workers who were once NW Oreint, Pan Am, and Hugues Air west, and a myriad of other Airlines that are now part of Delta, and while it's great to be proud of where you came from (I still sport my office NWA pin proudly) it shouldn't hinder us from going forward as what we are - ONE great airline.
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Old Nov 19, 11, 4:28 pm
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Originally Posted by NWA/Deltaflygirl View Post
I for one will be glad when it's ALL settled, no more 'premerger this or that.' I have friends and co-workers who were once NW Oreint, Pan Am, and Hugues Air west, and a myriad of other Airlines that are now part of Delta, and while it's great to be proud of where you came from (I still sport my office NWA pin proudly) it shouldn't hinder us from going forward as what we are - ONE great airline.
My business goes to non unionzed organizations as much as possible.

WTG DELTA ^

When I was younger I took a college course and the professors were unionized. We the students knew more than the professors and the class was unionized and they went on strike.

Ever since that time I have been totally anti union for the rest of my life.

I try to as much as possible use non union labor and businesses. If there are 2 business models and one has union and one is non union I will always go with the non union. With this move Delta regains my trust and they are fully showing the corporate culture is more alligned to the Delta culture than Northwest which is and has been far superior.

^^^^^^

Last edited by adamj023; Nov 19, 11 at 4:34 pm
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