Redeye Rudeness - Pilot as Passenger

Old Oct 31, 11, 8:18 pm
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Redeye Rudeness - Pilot as Passenger

856 SAN-JFK, Fri night 10/28 --

I was on a revenue ticket, my wife (non-elite) was on an award ticket (i.e., no companion upgrade) ... she declined my offer to sit up front, saying she finds it easier to lean against the sidewall in coach (10A)

for about the last 5-10 min of boarding, throughout the entire pushback/taxi/takeoff sequence incl the safety video, and the first 10 min or so of climbout the passenger in 10C (who admitted to being a DL pilot on leave) carried on a very animated conversation with the passenger in 10D (and possibly 10E as well) at a volume level that I could hear fairly clearly in row 2 (I also think at least one of the other talkers was an employee because she spent a fair amount of time in the forward galley chatting with the FAs during the trip)

I glared back at him several times, thought there was eye contact, gestured "Cut" and put my finger to my lips ... no reaction, no change in volume ... as soon as the FAs were up and about I rang the call button and asked the lead FA to please nicely ask them to shut up ... it probably took another 15-20 min before the conversation was at a low enough volume that my second Woodford kicked in

neither my wife nor I can say for sure whether he was NRSA or a paying psgr, but it's still rather disturbing that a line pilot and another DL employee apparently didn't understand (or just chose to ignore) that most if not all pax on a redeye are more interested in sleeping than in listening to other conversations
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Old Oct 31, 11, 8:27 pm
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I would send a email to DL, not for compensation, but delta employees are held to a very high standard when flying non-rev, if youve ever seen the paperwork for it its crazy. Given that you know the seat #s they were in, they should be able to track down the pilot and give him a nice slap on the back of the head (figuratively speaking of course.... )
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Old Oct 31, 11, 8:38 pm
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That's what headphones are for. If I am a paying passenger and I choose to talk on my flight, I have a right to do so. Maybe he slept all day and was up all night? I understand that it should be at a lower volume but he does have a right to have a conversation.
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Old Oct 31, 11, 8:43 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl22 View Post
856 SAN-JFK, Fri night 10/28 --

I was on a revenue ticket, my wife (non-elite) was on an award ticket (i.e., no companion upgrade) ... she declined my offer to sit up front, saying she finds it easier to lean against the sidewall in coach (10A)

for about the last 5-10 min of boarding, throughout the entire pushback/taxi/takeoff sequence incl the safety video, and the first 10 min or so of climbout the passenger in 10C (who admitted to being a DL pilot on leave) carried on a very animated conversation with the passenger in 10D (and possibly 10E as well) at a volume level that I could hear fairly clearly in row 2 (I also think at least one of the other talkers was an employee because she spent a fair amount of time in the forward galley chatting with the FAs during the trip)

I glared back at him several times, thought there was eye contact, gestured "Cut" and put my finger to my lips ... no reaction, no change in volume ... as soon as the FAs were up and about I rang the call button and asked the lead FA to please nicely ask them to shut up ... it probably took another 15-20 min before the conversation was at a low enough volume that my second Woodford kicked in

neither my wife nor I can say for sure whether he was NRSA or a paying psgr, but it's still rather disturbing that a line pilot and another DL employee apparently didn't understand (or just chose to ignore) that most if not all pax on a redeye are more interested in sleeping than in listening to other conversations
A few months ago I sat behind a a Delta First Officer in first on a CR7 MLI-ATL. He struck up a conversation with the guy next to him, but did so at fairly loud levels. I could tell others in the FC cabin were not very pleased (giving him 'that look'), but no one said anything. It didn't bother me, as I had earbuds in my ears rather quickly.
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Old Oct 31, 11, 8:57 pm
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Originally Posted by MR_MAMA View Post
That's what headphones are for. If I am a paying passenger and I choose to talk on my flight, I have a right to do so. Maybe he slept all day and was up all night? I understand that it should be at a lower volume but he does have a right to have a conversation.
Interesting... could you tell me where this right is specifically enumerated? Does it apply in movie theaters, too?
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Old Oct 31, 11, 9:04 pm
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I had a similar thing happen to me with two off-duty FAs (in uniform). They were in the first row of Y and I was in the last row of F. They kept blabbering on in loud voices while everyone in F shot each other - and them - glances. Eventually they got tired of each other and stopped talking. There's something pleasant about the peaceful quiet of a plane ride. I don't know why people feel the need to shout at each other inflight. If you want to talk to someone, use hushed voices. Sure, you have the right to talk, but when people are crammed together in such tight spaces the duties one owes to others become ratcheted up a bit.
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Old Oct 31, 11, 9:31 pm
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Originally Posted by MR_MAMA View Post
That's what headphones are for. If I am a paying passenger and I choose to talk on my flight, I have a right to do so. Maybe he slept all day and was up all night? I understand that it should be at a lower volume but he does have a right to have a conversation.
It is never your 'right' to be disturbing to other passengers, especially if you work for the airline.
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Old Oct 31, 11, 9:33 pm
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Originally Posted by bennos View Post
Interesting... could you tell me where this right is specifically enumerated? Does it apply in movie theaters, too?
Apples to oranges and you know it. Your analogy is like comparing a tiger to a chimpanzee. If I work the night shift,and I am normally up at nights,I just might want to talk at night while you are flying. I do agree that "night talkers" should be respectful of others, but to enforce a Code of Silence, are you serious? Try some headphones or earbuds. You might be surprised at what they block out. Heck, they might even block out my voice at night.
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Old Oct 31, 11, 9:43 pm
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I agree, you should have had headphones to put on. Granted he is not right, but could have easily had the same experience with a crying baby. Be prepared.
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Old Oct 31, 11, 10:01 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl22 View Post
856 SAN-JFK, Fri night 10/28 --

I was on a revenue ticket....
Flying quite a few redeyes, I can understand some want to sleep but then, some want to talk. FWIW, I always travel with two things...

[1] Eyeshades
[2] Bose QC-15 headphones

That won't stop pax from talking but it sure will drown out most of the noise and let me sleep if that's what I want. If someone is talking loud enough to get past that, simply ask them to keep it down a bit. Most pax on redeyes seem to understand.

As for being a DL pilot, don't read enough info here to know if that is true or not. Not saying he isn't, but may be another airline.


Originally Posted by bennos View Post
Interesting... could you tell me where this right is specifically enumerated? Does it apply in movie theaters, too?
Bizarre analogy. In a movie theater, people are actually listening to sounds so other talking would be quite a distraction. Don't see the same on an aircraft at all. Some talk, others sleep. Some keep their lights on, others don't. No rule requiring a pax to be quiet, though courteous is nice. If they continue to talk -- which is their right -- then go back to #1 and #2 above. They are the best friends on a redeye.
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Old Oct 31, 11, 11:11 pm
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Originally Posted by MR_MAMA View Post
That's what headphones are for. If I am a paying passenger and I choose to talk on my flight, I have a right to do so. Maybe he slept all day and was up all night? I understand that it should be at a lower volume but he does have a right to have a conversation.

I really don't agree. Particularly on a red eye or a overnight long haul, you should keep your voice down because most people try to sleep. Of course you can talk, but talk so just the person next to you can hear, not the whole cabin. There is a huge difference. Personally, I try to do this at all times, even on a short day time flight. There is no reason to be loud and act like its your living room or office. This is exactly why I hope that there will never, ever be cell phone service on planes.
I was sitting in F once on the LAX-DTW red eye. A Coach pax who was clearly friends with the FA's (probably a non-rev) kept walking up into F and chatting very audibly with the FA's in the F galley. I had ear plugs and an eye mask and but it does not block everything out.
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Old Nov 1, 11, 5:38 am
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Originally Posted by jdrtravel View Post
I really don't agree. Particularly on a red eye or a overnight long haul, you should keep your voice down because most people try to sleep.
Exactly! Just like most airlines require all passengers to close window shades on redeyes (there goes one's right to look out of the window), I feel that airlines have a right, if not obligation, to require all passengers to respect that most pax will attempt to sleep on a redeye and any sounds should be kept to an absolute minimum.
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Old Nov 1, 11, 5:54 am
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Unhappy Wow...

Originally Posted by jrl22 View Post
856 SAN-JFK, Fri night 10/28 --

I was on a revenue ticket, my wife (non-elite) was on an award ticket (i.e., no companion upgrade) ... she declined my offer to sit up front, saying she finds it easier to lean against the sidewall in coach (10A)

for about the last 5-10 min of boarding, throughout the entire pushback/taxi/takeoff sequence incl the safety video, and the first 10 min or so of climbout the passenger in 10C (who admitted to being a DL pilot on leave) carried on a very animated conversation with the passenger in 10D (and possibly 10E as well) at a volume level that I could hear fairly clearly in row 2 (I also think at least one of the other talkers was an employee because she spent a fair amount of time in the forward galley chatting with the FAs during the trip)

I glared back at him several times, thought there was eye contact, gestured "Cut" and put my finger to my lips ... no reaction, no change in volume ... as soon as the FAs were up and about I rang the call button and asked the lead FA to please nicely ask them to shut up ... it probably took another 15-20 min before the conversation was at a low enough volume that my second Woodford kicked in

neither my wife nor I can say for sure whether he was NRSA or a paying psgr, but it's still rather disturbing that a line pilot and another DL employee apparently didn't understand (or just chose to ignore) that most if not all pax on a redeye are more interested in sleeping than in listening to other conversations

Good grief...
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Old Nov 1, 11, 6:45 am
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If something bothered me this much, I would have asked the PAX politely to calm it down, I was trying to sleep.
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Old Nov 1, 11, 8:24 am
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Originally Posted by waltinsocal View Post
Apples to oranges and you know it.
Thanks for telling me what I know

Originally Posted by Sez_Who View Post
Bizarre analogy. In a movie theater, people are actually listening to sounds so other talking would be quite a distraction. Don't see the same on an aircraft at all. Some talk, others sleep. Some keep their lights on, others don't. No rule requiring a pax to be quiet, though courteous is nice. If they continue to talk -- which is their right -- then go back to #1 and #2 above. They are the best friends on a redeye.
The part I am specifically addressing here is the assertion that people have a right to talk on planes. Airplanes are governed by FAA regulations and company policies. I am asking for a citation of a regulation or a Delta policy specifically enumerating the right to (or, for that matter, prohibiting) talk on planes.

Absent that, what we're left with is etiquette... ie: being polite to each other. On a redeye, common sense says that most people will want to sleep and therefore etiquette is to be quiet (keep conversation to a whisper). The same way that etiquette says circumstances of a movie theater mean you shouldn't talk above a whisper.
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