Award Booking Travails
Oct 30, 2011, 10:24 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Location: PHL (kinda, no airport is really close)
Programs: AA Exp, but not sure for how long. Enterprise Platinum woo-hoo!
Posts: 4,550
Award Booking Travails
I spent the past 24 hours booking an award trip. At the end of the day, I got a pretty decent "deal" in that I got everywhere I wanted, and almost always in the cabins I wanted. I have to buy a separate ticket RDU-JFK (not that expensive) and on one short leg I'm "paying" for business class but sitting in coach, but it's not too bad. The booking process is damned annoying though.
I admit the trip wasn't simple. Mrs. Redtop, using miles out of her account, is going RDU-OTP (Bucharest), back with a stopover in CDG, then back here. I'm meeting her in Paris. On the outbound we're both flying Y, but J on the way home. We got both tix for 80K miles, which is the minimum TATL (30K Y, 50K J).
What's frustrating is (a) not being able to search effectively online and (b) seeming to never get the same answer twice. The trip is 10 months away, and I find it unlikely that many flights were available one night but not available the next morning. And if they were, ..., what sense does it make to screw with inventory back and forth?
There was one element of the trip that seems mathematically impossible. Mrs. RedTop was able to get the whole trip for 80K miles if she left from JFK, but it was 145K if she left from RDU. How can a single segment from RDU to JFK add 65K miles? Even if booked as a one-way (which on DL charges round-trip miles) at high mileage cost, it could be only 60K miles. There was another permutation of the trip where we were going to return CDG-AMS-DTW-RDU in J, but CDG-AMS was only available in Y. I know for a fact that it was available at low miles in Y booked as a stand-alone, but somehow adding it in Y to the rest of the trip in J added something like 65K miles, maybe more.
And some flights seemed to be available, then not, then available, then not. It's vaguely possible that there was only one seat on some flights, so if I booked it for Mrs. RT, it was no longer available for me.
Would it be so hard to be able to actually query individual segments, and know what's available and what's not? Put together an itinerary that makes sense? I probably spent 4-5 hours on the phone with about as many different Delta reps (including one that I hung up on because she was functionally clueless, like telling me that Tarom was not a Delta partner, when I know they are). Does it save them money to make it this complicated and make me take up this much of their time? The one rep I hung up on basically told me that it was pointless for me to suggest flights, that she couldn't search specific flights, but the next 3 I spoke with all asked "Did you have specific flights in mind?"
Notice that I'm not griping about things like not being able to pay the taxes/fee with an ECert, or lack of availability 10 months out, or things like that. I'm just griping about how complicated it is to find what they already have for the price they want to charge.
OK now pass me the cheese to go with my whine.
I admit the trip wasn't simple. Mrs. Redtop, using miles out of her account, is going RDU-OTP (Bucharest), back with a stopover in CDG, then back here. I'm meeting her in Paris. On the outbound we're both flying Y, but J on the way home. We got both tix for 80K miles, which is the minimum TATL (30K Y, 50K J).
What's frustrating is (a) not being able to search effectively online and (b) seeming to never get the same answer twice. The trip is 10 months away, and I find it unlikely that many flights were available one night but not available the next morning. And if they were, ..., what sense does it make to screw with inventory back and forth?
There was one element of the trip that seems mathematically impossible. Mrs. RedTop was able to get the whole trip for 80K miles if she left from JFK, but it was 145K if she left from RDU. How can a single segment from RDU to JFK add 65K miles? Even if booked as a one-way (which on DL charges round-trip miles) at high mileage cost, it could be only 60K miles. There was another permutation of the trip where we were going to return CDG-AMS-DTW-RDU in J, but CDG-AMS was only available in Y. I know for a fact that it was available at low miles in Y booked as a stand-alone, but somehow adding it in Y to the rest of the trip in J added something like 65K miles, maybe more.
And some flights seemed to be available, then not, then available, then not. It's vaguely possible that there was only one seat on some flights, so if I booked it for Mrs. RT, it was no longer available for me.
Would it be so hard to be able to actually query individual segments, and know what's available and what's not? Put together an itinerary that makes sense? I probably spent 4-5 hours on the phone with about as many different Delta reps (including one that I hung up on because she was functionally clueless, like telling me that Tarom was not a Delta partner, when I know they are). Does it save them money to make it this complicated and make me take up this much of their time? The one rep I hung up on basically told me that it was pointless for me to suggest flights, that she couldn't search specific flights, but the next 3 I spoke with all asked "Did you have specific flights in mind?"
Notice that I'm not griping about things like not being able to pay the taxes/fee with an ECert, or lack of availability 10 months out, or things like that. I'm just griping about how complicated it is to find what they already have for the price they want to charge.
OK now pass me the cheese to go with my whine.
Oct 31, 2011, 4:19 am
#2
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: LAS
Programs: PA FT, TW Gold, NW/CO PE, VK Eagleflyer
Posts: 7,173
I would suggest that you e-mail your sad and wholly credible story to this guy at Delta; he seems to believe his own PR:
"Customer demand is evolving every day and Delta is ahead of the game, delivering on customer preferences as it relates to technology and innovation," said Bob Kupbens, Delta's vice president – eCommerce. "Whether through our mobile apps, Wi-Fi on soon to be more than 800 aircraft or a more comprehensive and customer-friendly delta.com experience, Delta is delivering." .
"Customer demand is evolving every day and Delta is ahead of the game, delivering on customer preferences as it relates to technology and innovation," said Bob Kupbens, Delta's vice president – eCommerce. "Whether through our mobile apps, Wi-Fi on soon to be more than 800 aircraft or a more comprehensive and customer-friendly delta.com experience, Delta is delivering." .
Oct 31, 2011, 9:45 am
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MN
Programs: Lots of programs, dirt on all of them!
Posts: 11,938
1. Get a subscription to ExpertFlyer, KVS and/or AwardNexus so you can search for award availability on your own first. Then just call and feed the phone agents the info you already found and know exists.
2. Plan already on attending the Chicago Seminars next fall.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/commu...tion-open.html
Incredible time, incredible tips on everything miles and points. Lots of info on award bookings.
2. Plan already on attending the Chicago Seminars next fall.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/commu...tion-open.html
Incredible time, incredible tips on everything miles and points. Lots of info on award bookings.
Oct 31, 2011, 10:33 am
#5
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MEL
Programs: DL, QF, QR Gold, MR Lifetime Gold
Posts: 6,997
I've recently used both EF and KVS. EF can NOT find DL awards, only UGs, so you can't really use it for that. KVS does work tho (although it doesn't have alerts, like EF does - you have to check yourself all the time).
There was another permutation of the trip where we were going to return CDG-AMS-DTW-RDU in J, but CDG-AMS was only available in Y. I know for a fact that it was available at low miles in Y booked as a stand-alone, but somehow adding it in Y to the rest of the trip in J added something like 65K miles, maybe more.
) I was all excited once because I had found availability at dl.dumb and when I called the agent couldn't see ANY of the availability displayed online. I compared with KVS and sure enough - what KVS was showing coincided with that the agent was seeing, while the website was all over the place.(Of course... with such a stupid web site people end up calling all the time which means they have to pay agents to take our calls. Do it all on the web site or spend a total of 40 hours of phone agents' time each non-domestic award?
)Oh no... you do NOT want the cheese.
Oct 31, 2011, 10:37 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MN
Programs: Lots of programs, dirt on all of them!
Posts: 11,938
AwardNexus says "Search awards on all 27+ Star Alliance airlines and all 12+ Oneworld airlines". So it won't do you a lot of good with DL.
I've recently used both EF and KVS. EF can NOT find DL awards, only UGs, so you can't really use it for that. KVS does work tho (although it doesn't have alerts, like EF does - you have to check yourself all the time).
I've recently used both EF and KVS. EF can NOT find DL awards, only UGs, so you can't really use it for that. KVS does work tho (although it doesn't have alerts, like EF does - you have to check yourself all the time).
Oct 31, 2011, 1:57 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Location: PHL (kinda, no airport is really close)
Programs: AA Exp, but not sure for how long. Enterprise Platinum woo-hoo!
Posts: 4,550
OK, seriously...
The final booking wasn't too bad. Mrs. RT is flying JFK-CDG-OTP in Y, then returning OTP-AMS-CDG in J, stopover, then OTP-ATL in J and ATL-RDU in Y. I'm flying RDU-CVG-IAD-CDG in Y, then returning CDG-ATL-RDU in J.
All this for 80K miles each, which is the min for Y one direction and J the other.
The last agent who booked me said that if another F seat becomes available on the ATL-RDU leg we could probably get her last leg upgraded without a change fee. We'll see.
Oct 31, 2011, 4:06 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Location: PHL (kinda, no airport is really close)
Programs: AA Exp, but not sure for how long. Enterprise Platinum woo-hoo!
Posts: 4,550
I should add one more thing.
It was fortunate that Mrs. Redtop only had 67K miles in her account. Because she didn't have enough miles, I was able to put her ticket on hold. During the time I had her ticket on hold, I had time to fiddle with mine and eventually find a better itinerary. Originally, she had to travel RDU-JFK-CDG-AMT-OTP, but I was able to eliminate the stop in AMS. She will not get to OTP much earlier, but at least she can chill in the lounge in CDG rather than having to be in the air. Also, her original return was CDG-JFK, meaning I'd have had to buy another domestic ticket.
The point being, if I had had to book her flight immediately I'd have found up with a far inferior routing. We were just lucky that she didn't have enough miles and that I had to top it off with some Amex Membership Rewards points.
It was fortunate that Mrs. Redtop only had 67K miles in her account. Because she didn't have enough miles, I was able to put her ticket on hold. During the time I had her ticket on hold, I had time to fiddle with mine and eventually find a better itinerary. Originally, she had to travel RDU-JFK-CDG-AMT-OTP, but I was able to eliminate the stop in AMS. She will not get to OTP much earlier, but at least she can chill in the lounge in CDG rather than having to be in the air. Also, her original return was CDG-JFK, meaning I'd have had to buy another domestic ticket.
The point being, if I had had to book her flight immediately I'd have found up with a far inferior routing. We were just lucky that she didn't have enough miles and that I had to top it off with some Amex Membership Rewards points.
Nov 1, 2011, 9:08 pm
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
I've had DL display availability that wasn't there. My guess is that it's part of their game to make it look like there are more awards available. (Yes, I said the G word.... THEY are the gamers, not us!) I was all excited once because I had found availability at dl.dumb and when I called the agent couldn't see ANY of the availability displayed online. I compared with KVS and sure enough - what KVS was showing coincided with that the agent was seeing, while the website was all over the place.
) I was all excited once because I had found availability at dl.dumb and when I called the agent couldn't see ANY of the availability displayed online. I compared with KVS and sure enough - what KVS was showing coincided with that the agent was seeing, while the website was all over the place.
Nov 2, 2011, 10:40 am
#10
Left Expert Flyer 4/23
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,741
That is correct, ExpertFlyer is the only source for DL upgrades and Flight Alerts. Delta.com is the only source for Delta award information, any service that claims to have DL awards is screen scraping the data from the Delta website, which is free to all.
