TheMoose

What will the fares in this market look like after reducing the available seats by ~33%? BE capacity reduced by ~31%? How many people that used to fly one-stops to Asia will now be forced to double-connect?

travisair

Flyertalk can sure be interesting at times. Send in the 747, we complain about the old plane, no on demand system, no flat seats. -- Delta switches to a new 777 with great slection of on demind, lie flat seats and overall a more comfortable plane and we complain the service is being reduced. If I flew this route regularly, I'd be stoked for the change.

fmvinny

I fly MSP-NRT on 9/22 and return on 10/1 on seat 77 A and 73A. Bought M class and ungraded to BE using SWU. Wonder what will happen?

3Cforme

You'll enjoy the lie-flat seats on the 777. If times changed signifacntly the auto-rebooking may be wonky. If you don't contact Delta they may wait until T-30 days.

bennos

I said no such thing.

sxf24

I'm sure fares for MSP originating travel and from domestic destinations unique to MSP won't change much. Fares for cities pairs that have other connecting options will probably rise. Ultimately, I think this will impact passengers originating in Asia more than those in the US.

Oh, the 777 is quieter on take-off and landing and produces significantly less carbon emissions. I guess Delta hates MSP so much it wants to help the environment.

sxf24

There's a contingent who bemoan any change that deviates from pre-merger NW. I'm sure that if DC-10s were still around at the time of the merger, they'd complain when DL retired them.

ktown

After the merger, there was quite a bit of excitement to see a 747 in Delta livery, and i read many threads that expressed excitement over 747s flying ex-atlanta.

MSP has seen a gauge (capacity) cut in every single one of its international flights and lost its HNL nonstop.

MSP still has good service to many places, but you have agree that MSP has not seen a whole lot of benefits (capacity and destination-wise) since the merger.

TTT

Are there any firm dates for this change? Is it just for the fall or for fall and onwards?

Every1 Get A Life

While I don't disagree with a lot of the MSP loyalist sentiment, let me play devil's advocate.

The summer prior to the merger, there were 3x A333s on MSP-AMS, 1x 333 MSP-LHR, 1x 333 MSP-CDG and 1x 744 MSP-NRT.

Today there is 2x 333 and 1x 763 MSP-AMS, 1x 764 MSP-LHR, 1x 763 MSP-CDG and 1x 744 MSP-NRT.

Obviously this looks like a lot of capacity that has been cut. But by all accounts from what I have heard, MSP-CDG was an absolute disaster that year on a 333. It went seasonal, came back next year on a 763, was seasonal again, and only finally went year round last fall. One could argue that the current 2x 333 and 1x 763 to AMS combined with the 1x 763 to CDG is the right balance of hub-to-hub capacity. It is not fair to compare to MSP-CDGs first year on the A333 because it was short-lived, seasonal and did awfully.

MSP-LHR was cut from a 333 to a 764, but this is clearly a product play to LHR. 333s are the least premium aircraft, and as such, are on leisure heavy routes like DUB, BCN, ATH, HNL, etc. The 764 has more premium seats and a better product for LHR.

Lastly, while MSP-NRT on a 777 is clearly a capacity cut, the 744s will start going in heavily for flat bed mods this fall. One could clearly ask, why not JFK-NRT, JFK-TLV, DTW-NGO, etc? But to be honest, those routes all have a lot of leisure demand that requires a large aircraft to lower the CASM and make those leisure pax profitable.

NRT will only have DTW and JFK 744s this fall. DTW-NRT has lost a full 744 worth of capacity since the merger, and clearly needs the capacity. JFK also requires a big plane to make the competitive fares on the route work. ATL, SEA, LAX, SFO, etc will all have less than 744 this fall. It's not crazy to think MSP-NRT would be next in line, especially with flat bed mods this fall. Let's see once all mods are complete next summer what happens with MSP-NRT before we judge.

rylan

That is a big drop in capacity, and I'm not sure who is thinking that MSP-NRT is not a full flight and commands high fares. Even cheap Y is running close to 2k, M fares are at least 4k and discount J starts at around 5.5k and goes up quickly.

hooverer

The 744 going to a 777 has the biggest reduction in regular Y which has some have commented, may not be the highest yield.

However consider this in terms of seats

BE EC Std Y
Current 744 65 42 288
Current 777 45 36 188
Upgrade 744 48 42* 288*

With the upgrades to the 744 (new lie BE seats, there is an announced 17 seat reduction from 65 to 48, I could not find quickly if the EC or regular Y seat counts will change or by how much. What is interesting is that initially Delta will reduce by 20 BE seats, and 6 EC seats, however 100 of standard Y while going to the 777 more premium hard product. Once the 744 get their upgrades and new premium hard product, then the BE seat count goes up by 3 from the 777, EC could go up by 6 (assuming the numbers stay the same) and increase of more Y seats back into the mix.

Thus another way of looking at this besides Delta is trying to stick to MSP is that MSP is getting the premium product now, granted with 3 fewer BE seats than what would be on the upgraded 744, and 6 fewer EC seats while pulling down lots of standard Y capacity that if needed can be restored once the 744 upgrades are done.

Food for thought


-H

tentseller

While this looks like a cut in MSP-NRT capacity one need to know the true originating airport of many MSP-NRT passengers is not MSP. DL can route Midwest, Great Lakes and North East passangers to NRT via MSP DTW JFK or even ATL to balance the inbound NRT traffic.

In my 6 MSP-NRT runs in the last three years, 4 in BE and 2 in Y I have yet to meet anyone (even on a packed 744) from MSP. After CBP there was only a trickle who was not connecting onward by the crowd at the two exits from customs hall.

minnyfly

NRT-MSP is already oversold in Y - and well-booked in J - until nearly a week into August. It has its seasonal downtimes like the other NRT flights, but MSP-NRT consistently fills a 747 during most of the year.

So true. Losses left and right and only a some spotty domestic gains.

As usual I see they threw the obligatory "committed to MSP" line in the news release. Must be using the "say it often enough and they will believe it" strategy. Delta, tell me how losing 2/5ths of the MSP-NRT capacity since the merger is commitment to that route.

They didn't announce a return date, so I'd assume the switch is for an indefinite period of time.

javabytes