First Class Monetization, or FCM: The Definitive Thread
Mar 24, 2013, 3:51 pm
#1426
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL FO/KM, AA PLT
Posts: 2,594
Good Lord do some people read what they've written before they post it?
Last edited by FlyDeltaJets87; Mar 24, 2013 at 4:00 pm
Mar 24, 2013, 3:57 pm
#1427
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: msp
Programs: AA PLT 3MM, DL PM 2MM
Posts: 1,142
Perhaps for some, perhaps not for others. IMO, diversification and trip management are the keys. I continue to be 100% on the cheapest coach fares on both DL and AA. I also buy discounted First if the differential is reasonable. I am also willing to connect in most cases. Works fine for me.
Mar 24, 2013, 4:53 pm
#1428
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: Fly paid F and J. AA EXP. DL PM.
Posts: 407
I don't understand why domestic US first class is priced at such a high multiple... that few passengers purchase the fare... and therefore seats are given away to elites or upgrades are sold.
For DL, why not lower the first class price differential, make up for the drop in per ticket revenue with greater volume (more passengers paying a lower fare)... and upgrade the service offering.
On some routes I'd pay for first class (out of my pocket) if the fare was not 3x, 4x, or greater than the price of coach. The current system just degrades the product.
I'm sure they have smart quant jocks who have modeled this out. I've just never seen a rationale for not doing the above vs maintaining the same Pterodactyl pricing models.
And... I don't buy the argument that "the Elites" would retaliate and go to another airline since 1) most are flying based on corporate pricing and are somewhat directed to specific airlines; 2) a lot are captive to airlines' market share on a given route or city, e.g., where would all the p-offed PMs and DMs in ATL go?; and 3) if one airline did it, they'd all follow.
For DL, why not lower the first class price differential, make up for the drop in per ticket revenue with greater volume (more passengers paying a lower fare)... and upgrade the service offering.
On some routes I'd pay for first class (out of my pocket) if the fare was not 3x, 4x, or greater than the price of coach. The current system just degrades the product.
I'm sure they have smart quant jocks who have modeled this out. I've just never seen a rationale for not doing the above vs maintaining the same Pterodactyl pricing models.
And... I don't buy the argument that "the Elites" would retaliate and go to another airline since 1) most are flying based on corporate pricing and are somewhat directed to specific airlines; 2) a lot are captive to airlines' market share on a given route or city, e.g., where would all the p-offed PMs and DMs in ATL go?; and 3) if one airline did it, they'd all follow.
Last edited by FitTraveler; Mar 24, 2013 at 5:00 pm
Mar 24, 2013, 5:07 pm
#1429
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold, AA EXP, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 21,593
I don't understand why domestic US first class is priced at such a high multiple... that few passengers purchase the fare... and therefore seats are given away to elites or upgrades are sold.
For DL, why not lower the first class price differential, make up for the drop in per ticket revenue with greater volume (more passengers paying a lower fare)... and upgrade the service offering.
For DL, why not lower the first class price differential, make up for the drop in per ticket revenue with greater volume (more passengers paying a lower fare)... and upgrade the service offering.
And indeed, in most markets, DL's F fares are priced much more competitively these days.
That is why more pax (elites and non-elites) are buying F, leaving some DL elites in the back of the bus.
I'm all for charging for upgrades (like AA does for all but EXPs) if that will improve the food.
Mar 24, 2013, 5:19 pm
#1430
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MCO
Programs: DL-DM/1MM, HILTON-DIA, .HYATT-DIA/GLOB , IHG-PLT,HERTZ 5*, NATIONAL ES
Posts: 8,691
I think the biggest frustration with the whole FCM thing on this board is that domestic upgrades used to be the one redeeming quality of the skymiles program. Award redemptions are tough, SWU's are fairly useless for upgrades, ect.
Flyers dealt with the other crap because they liked the comp upgrade odds. Now that DL is selling the seats on the cheap instead of giving them to medallions it has bothered many, which I understand.
Your question is a good on though, Delta obviously thinks it is a better idea for them to sell cheap F seats then to give them away, but in the process how many medallions are they pissing off? That is what they have to weigh and they obviously think the extra revenue is worth it.
Flyers dealt with the other crap because they liked the comp upgrade odds. Now that DL is selling the seats on the cheap instead of giving them to medallions it has bothered many, which I understand.
Your question is a good on though, Delta obviously thinks it is a better idea for them to sell cheap F seats then to give them away, but in the process how many medallions are they pissing off? That is what they have to weigh and they obviously think the extra revenue is worth it.
Mar 24, 2013, 6:20 pm
#1431
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 198
This thread is not about monetizing a seat. I am all for it. It is a bit irritating for me to buy a last minute M or B fare and sit in the back, while a non FF is sitting up front on a fare that was 1/3 the cost.
QUOTE=StuckOnSegments;20471134]I think he's reinforcing the point that upgrades are no longer going to be a real benefit of FF programs. Delta and other airlines are starting to monetize those seats...and it's going to negatively affect us.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=StuckOnSegments;20471134]I think he's reinforcing the point that upgrades are no longer going to be a real benefit of FF programs. Delta and other airlines are starting to monetize those seats...and it's going to negatively affect us.[/QUOTE]
Mar 24, 2013, 7:09 pm
#1432
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MN
Programs: Lots of programs, dirt on all of them!
Posts: 11,938
you can also buy a last minute A or P fare just like others have that option (if it is offered). My guess is that the reason you don't do it is either it is not offered (thus a non FF is not sitting up front on a fare that was 1/3 the cost) or your company's travel policy requires you to buy the coach fare that costs 3x the last-minute first fare. The latter is an issue with your company's travel policy, not with DL.
Mar 24, 2013, 7:28 pm
#1433
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,419
+1
Mar 24, 2013, 9:00 pm
#1434
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: Fly paid F and J. AA EXP. DL PM.
Posts: 407
Mar 24, 2013, 9:26 pm
#1435
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashville
Programs: DL DM 3 MM AA PLAT HH Lifetime Diamond Marriott Plat AMB lifetime titanium Hertz PC
Posts: 6,187
Does your travel policy allow you to search for F or do you book direct?
Mar 24, 2013, 9:28 pm
#1436
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL DM, MM
Posts: 2,970
The whole reason i brought that up was because i'm ok with not getting upgraded on that flight. Jesus people, read the thread.
This complaint is around a different flight(ie not my normal route) where delta had almost no upgrade inventory in order to sell cheap F seats. I bought the seat, i'm just mad that what should have been an easy upgrade wasn't. This is another nail in the coffin of skymiles. I'm getting to the point where trying to fly DL just isn't worth it anymore.
Mar 24, 2013, 9:34 pm
#1437
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL DM, MM
Posts: 2,970
I get it, I know how to raise my chances, i just can't do it. As a result i'm 0/22 on my normal route as a PM. And i'm ok with that.
Mar 24, 2013, 9:35 pm
#1438
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL DM, MM
Posts: 2,970
Screw you??? that nice Where did i say you were an idiot... so leaving your personal attack aside... honestly I am
If you are a PM and you haven't made 1 upgrade in 22 flights then you are doing something wrong. PERIOD. Delta have tons of upgrade inventory, ask the 10 DM's who got upgraded..... I do have a travel policy to adhere too, i work within it and i still manage to get upgrades. I travel medallion heavy routes.
THe harder i work at getting on the right flights the luckier i get with upgrades....
Where did i say you were an idiot... so leaving your personal attack aside... honestly I am If you are a PM and you haven't made 1 upgrade in 22 flights then you are doing something wrong. PERIOD. Delta have tons of upgrade inventory, ask the 10 DM's who got upgraded.....
I do have a travel policy to adhere too, i work within it and i still manage to get upgrades. I travel medallion heavy routes. THe harder i work at getting on the right flights the luckier i get with upgrades....
That seemed like a personal attack.
I'd really like for you to tell me what i'm doing wrong.
Mar 24, 2013, 9:39 pm
#1439
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL DM, MM
Posts: 2,970
Then take it up with your company and their travel policies or find a company with better travel policies. It's not DL's job to plan it's revenue and business strategry around your company's travel policies.
Good Lord do some people read what they've written before they post it?
Good Lord do some people read what they've written before they post it?
Mar 24, 2013, 9:51 pm
#1440
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL FO/KM, AA PLT
Posts: 2,594
I did read the thread. Delta doesn't have to plan it's pricing or upgrade strategies around your companies travel policies or your travel habits. Telling other posters "screw you" isn't going to change that.