First Class Monetization, or FCM: The Definitive Thread
Feb 23, 2011, 11:29 am
#76
Suspended
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,621
Use Anogher Carrier
No one denies that Delta is a for-profit business. I think what is frustrating is that Delta is trying to monetize seats for far less than $617 while simultaneously forgetting that their most frequent travelers regularly spend more to solely fly Delta. My case and point: I spent $600 more to go to Hawaii last week than flying United would have cost me. My routing was DTW-LAX-HNL there and OGG(Maui)-LAX-DTW on the way back. I know Delta doesn't upgrade to/from Hawaii unless you live there, but when in LAX en route to HNL they were selling gate upgrades for (don't quote me) $200 bucks and it may appear that it's a quick buck for them. What they forget is that a Diamond is sitting in Coach who spent $600 more to fly them in the first place. Similar frustration is what is rubbing some of us wrong. There are many frequent Delta flyers who think DL can do no harm, and will never cry foul. Others, like me, will at least put up a fight.
Feb 23, 2011, 11:42 am
#78
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
Feb 23, 2011, 12:26 pm
#79
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
It's interesting to me that the grievance in this discussion is that Delta might be pricing its domestic F product at a level where it will actually sell. According to that reasoning, the way for DL to "fix" this "problem" is to raise F upsell prices to astronomical levels where they will not sell--or better yet, stop offering F for purchase altogether--then award the unsold F seats to upgrade eligible Medallions.
If in fact the upsells are available for a small incremental spend over a YBMH fare, doesn't it make sense to simply purchase one yourself?
Feb 23, 2011, 1:08 pm
#80
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Maybe they should do what they are actually doing and offer F upsells to high revenue late booking passengers, most of whom are business travelers and already PM/DM.
It's interesting to me that the grievance in this discussion is that Delta might be pricing its domestic F product at a level where it will actually sell. According to that reasoning, the way for DL to "fix" this "problem" is to raise F upsell prices to astronomical levels where they will not sell--or better yet, stop offering F for purchase altogether--then award the unsold F seats to upgrade eligible Medallions.
If in fact the upsells are available for a small incremental spend over a YBMH fare, doesn't it make sense to simply purchase one yourself?
It's interesting to me that the grievance in this discussion is that Delta might be pricing its domestic F product at a level where it will actually sell. According to that reasoning, the way for DL to "fix" this "problem" is to raise F upsell prices to astronomical levels where they will not sell--or better yet, stop offering F for purchase altogether--then award the unsold F seats to upgrade eligible Medallions.
If in fact the upsells are available for a small incremental spend over a YBMH fare, doesn't it make sense to simply purchase one yourself?
Indeed it does. I am PM, but based in DTW. Anyone who has flown DTW-LAX knows how tough it can be for upgrades. I just locked in a P fare round trip for 989 RT. Expensive, yes. Outrageous, no. Any sweating it at the last minute for upgrades, not a chance.
I guess if this is their idea of monitization, I LIKE IT!
Feb 23, 2011, 1:09 pm
#81
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: AUS
Programs: Delta - Silver
Posts: 329
Indeed it does. I am PM, but based in DTW. Anyone who has flown DTW-LAX knows how tough it can be for upgrades. I just locked in a P fare round trip for 989 RT. Expensive, yes. Outrageous, no. Any sweating it at the last minute for upgrades, not a chance.
I guess if this is their idea of monitization, I LIKE IT!
I guess if this is their idea of monitization, I LIKE IT!
Feb 23, 2011, 1:16 pm
#82
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
I'm generally happy with the people and the service they provide. I am a realist and know that as the economy and airline industry changes, I will have to pay for the service that I desire.
Feb 23, 2011, 1:23 pm
#83
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Chester, OH
Programs: Delta SM, Hilton Honors Diamond, Marriott Silver
Posts: 254
Maybe they should do what they are actually doing and offer F upsells to high revenue late booking passengers, most of whom are business travelers and already PM/DM.
It's interesting to me that the grievance in this discussion is that Delta might be pricing its domestic F product at a level where it will actually sell. According to that reasoning, the way for DL to "fix" this "problem" is to raise F upsell prices to astronomical levels where they will not sell--or better yet, stop offering F for purchase altogether--then award the unsold F seats to upgrade eligible Medallions.
If in fact the upsells are available for a small incremental spend over a YBMH fare, doesn't it make sense to simply purchase one yourself?
It's interesting to me that the grievance in this discussion is that Delta might be pricing its domestic F product at a level where it will actually sell. According to that reasoning, the way for DL to "fix" this "problem" is to raise F upsell prices to astronomical levels where they will not sell--or better yet, stop offering F for purchase altogether--then award the unsold F seats to upgrade eligible Medallions.
If in fact the upsells are available for a small incremental spend over a YBMH fare, doesn't it make sense to simply purchase one yourself?
Feb 23, 2011, 8:00 pm
#85
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: DL DM; DL AMEX Reserve; HHonors Gold
Posts: 1,984
Feb 23, 2011, 8:47 pm
#86
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: Fallen DL DM (PM) 2MM
Posts: 4,783
If you look back at threads in the forum (and the other legacies) you'll see lots of posts along the line of "I have been flying OAL but I just moved to XXX -- should I switch to Delta?"
Usually this is followed by some questions -- where to you fly, how far in advance to you buy your ticket how many miles this year, etc. etc.
Then there usually are some comments on the hard and soft product of DL and others, usually oriented towards what the poster likes (WiFi, AVOD, etc. etc.)
Finally there is a summary along the lines of "If you fly 100K+/year and do a fair amount of international then DL may not be the best choice for you. But if you fly domestically the UDUs rock big time"
Any objective comparison of FF programs will usually say that DL redemptions are more difficult, especially in the premium cabin and their upgrade instruments to top tier elites are less flexible (higher fare class, less inventory) than UA or AA but that their domestic upgrade policy is far superior especially for non-top-tier elites.
So say Delta is in a fact aggressively trying to sell the FC cabin and has a modest success. So DM UG percentages drop from 85-95% to 50-75%. Then PMs would probably be 25-50% which doesn't leave much for GM (and those other guys -- what were they called again -- oh yes, FO
)
If GM upgrades (and PM and DM for that matter) fall off significantly, why should anybody who is not a hub captive be loyal to Delta? When I was a loyal NW flyer many times it would have been more convenient or cheaper to fly UA or AA out of LAX but I flew NW primarily for the decent rate of upgrades.
Those of us who have expressed concern aren't saying Delta has no right to do this -- they do. And if they make a pile of money then it is a good thing for the airline. But if they make a (relatively) small amount of money it may come at the expense of low and mid-level elites (plus some higher, depending upgrade rates)
And maybe this is a feature not a bug. Drive away the low and mid level elites and fill their seats with people who will pay the bag fees, the lounge day passes and soon (I wouldn't be surprised) "for a small fee purchase Sky Priority for your flight."
At this point last year (after one trip) I am at the same as this year for upgrades 1 of 2. By the end of April I will have requalified as DM. Then comes the hard choice -- if I am at 50% (or below) then I think a match/challenge will be in order. I might as well have E+ on all my flights, if I'm not getting upgrades.
I fully embrace my Cubic Zirconia-ness (a/k/a "Diamond Lite") and I'm sure many of the folks who travel on somebody else's dime will say "don't let the screen door hit your backside on the way out..."
Usually this is followed by some questions -- where to you fly, how far in advance to you buy your ticket how many miles this year, etc. etc.
Then there usually are some comments on the hard and soft product of DL and others, usually oriented towards what the poster likes (WiFi, AVOD, etc. etc.)
Finally there is a summary along the lines of "If you fly 100K+/year and do a fair amount of international then DL may not be the best choice for you. But if you fly domestically the UDUs rock big time"
Any objective comparison of FF programs will usually say that DL redemptions are more difficult, especially in the premium cabin and their upgrade instruments to top tier elites are less flexible (higher fare class, less inventory) than UA or AA but that their domestic upgrade policy is far superior especially for non-top-tier elites.
So say Delta is in a fact aggressively trying to sell the FC cabin and has a modest success. So DM UG percentages drop from 85-95% to 50-75%. Then PMs would probably be 25-50% which doesn't leave much for GM (and those other guys -- what were they called again -- oh yes, FO
)If GM upgrades (and PM and DM for that matter) fall off significantly, why should anybody who is not a hub captive be loyal to Delta? When I was a loyal NW flyer many times it would have been more convenient or cheaper to fly UA or AA out of LAX but I flew NW primarily for the decent rate of upgrades.
Those of us who have expressed concern aren't saying Delta has no right to do this -- they do. And if they make a pile of money then it is a good thing for the airline. But if they make a (relatively) small amount of money it may come at the expense of low and mid-level elites (plus some higher, depending upgrade rates)
And maybe this is a feature not a bug. Drive away the low and mid level elites and fill their seats with people who will pay the bag fees, the lounge day passes and soon (I wouldn't be surprised) "for a small fee purchase Sky Priority for your flight."
At this point last year (after one trip) I am at the same as this year for upgrades 1 of 2. By the end of April I will have requalified as DM. Then comes the hard choice -- if I am at 50% (or below) then I think a match/challenge will be in order. I might as well have E+ on all my flights, if I'm not getting upgrades.
I fully embrace my Cubic Zirconia-ness (a/k/a "Diamond Lite") and I'm sure many of the folks who travel on somebody else's dime will say "don't let the screen door hit your backside on the way out..."
Feb 23, 2011, 10:01 pm
#88
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: Formaldehyde Medallion DL DieMiles
Posts: 12,646
The are markets (FC monetized) where the offer to upgrade to FC returns a bargain basement P fare that can be discounted 50 to 60% or more off of the F fare.
Feb 23, 2011, 11:19 pm
#89
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SEA
Programs: UA 1K, AS MVPG, DL GM, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,266
Obviously JFK-LAX (highly business) where demand for F(J) is high, they won't be offering the discounted fares.
Markets like MSP-LAS or MSP-PHX (highly leisure travel) where the demand for F is low, they will offer more enticing discounted F prices. Most people will balk at the $400-500 more RT that it costs if they are buying the cheaper fares (95% of the populations) but some that are buying last minute tickets or less restrictive fares will be able to purchase a seat up front for a smaller number (say $49-120) over the price of their M or H fare.
How does this model not make sense to people??? It isn't going to impact 95% of traveler since they want the lowest fares and $757 RT from MSP-PHX is too much for them. I have yet to see them selling a $300 RT Discounted First Class ticket and they won't. Most people don't want to pay over $500 a person for a domestic plane ticket.
Feb 23, 2011, 11:29 pm
#90
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: lax
Programs: DL DM, SPG Plat
Posts: 781
hmm, i don't do that route that often- i've flown dtw-lax or lax-dtw 6 times in the last 6 months- and haven't missed an upgrade (4 as gm, 2 as pm). maybe being lax based i'm doing the 'reverse commute'...