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First Class Monetization, or FCM: The Definitive Thread

First Class Monetization, or FCM: The Definitive Thread

Old Feb 22, 2011, 1:22 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewpartyman
... I know Delta doesn't upgrade to/from Hawaii unless you live there, but when in LAX en route to HNL they were selling gate upgrades for (don't quote me) $200 bucks and it may appear that it's a quick buck for them. What they forget is that a Diamond is sitting in Coach who spent $600 more to fly them in the first place. Similar frustration is what is rubbing some of us wrong. There are many frequent Delta flyers who think DL can do no harm, and will never cry foul. Others, like me, will at least put up a fight.
The upsell at the gate from LAX to KOA (my only datapoint) and back has been going on for years - that's not part of the new "monetization". Those in the know usually wait and gamble on the availability, especially on the way back to the mainland.
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 1:26 pm
  #32  
 
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Honestly, I would say that toward the end of 2010 it seemed that Delta had really gotten their act together with domestic first class. Place mats, decent meals, pretty solid service. Is it first class on Singapore? No. However, it was decent. They had a lot of kinks but it seemed that it was getting much better. I would attribute that to medallions who fly a lot constantly pointing out the short comings of first class. Just my opinion, but if FC is filled with infrequent paying customers I really think Delta will cut back the recent quality of service. That may seem nonsensical, but they can get away with offering a lot less to people who have a very limited comprehension of what good service is and what they should expect.
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 1:29 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by MAMOHT
Well, I'm pretty sure that if UG percentage goes down noticeable then next year DL will miss a lot of top tier medallions. So far though, I only see changes that benefit casual fliers rather than frequent ones. Business model change? After all, I with my 142 segments last year only fly as much as about one 757 full of people. Not that much if turn it this way.
I don't get all the hand-wringing over DL showing people when an HUP or MUP fare is only, say $60 more expensive than the lowest fare available (probably a Q at that point, or maybe an H without the UP). These people are already paying more for a fare late in the game, and if DL can make a bit more money by clearly showing them how to buy a fare that will put them in F, then more power to them. This is very different than offering $50 upgrades of LUT fares at a kiosk or something like that. The people seeing late UP fares are unlikely to be your average kettles booking leisure trips anyway. DL being profitable and seeing F as a reasonable proposition ensures that they won't undertake any more elimination of F seats. If it's just full of upgraded medallions all the time, they're going to do what they did to the A319s across a larger swath of the fleet.
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 1:30 pm
  #34  
 
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I actually fail to see how the OP's scenario is an example of "First Class Monetization" (I guess depending on how you define that). I thought the discussion of "FC Monetization" was about trying to sell an upgrade to First for a supplement such that the fare paid for First Class is less than the actual First Class fare. But the OP's scenario does not seem to be the case, but rather a regular "upsell" to try to entice the customer into buying the actual First Class fare....

The offer of an additional $617 above the $1167 pseudo-discounted economy fare the OP quoted IS actually the discounted First Class fare. I tried the same routing for April and got a U/L fare combo of $790 r/t. It then offered me an upgrade to a full Y fare of $1480 (same fare as the OP quoted for a Y fare), or a First Class fare of $1745+ taxes.
When I clicked to the flight selection for the $790 fare, there was an offer to upgrade to First Class for about $1000 more, which essentially brings it to the same $1700+ First Class fare, which is the same First Class fare the OP mentioned ($1167 + $617). The First Class fare they are ultimately offering is no different than if one went to delta.com and simply purchased a First Class fare for the route.

There are no extra special/discounted First Class upgrade supplements involved. They have this all the time (e.g., upgrade to BusinessElite for an extra $2500 over your selected fare at the time of booking, etc.).

What am I missing here?
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 1:33 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by Swiss Tony
Just passing through - literally. I saw this thread on the first page of FT and it's quite frankly a joke.

FC should be there to be paid for. To be aspirational. To be for the CEO or maybe the holiday of a lifetime. The US legacy carriers have created a monster through this upgrade expectation to loyal customers (of which they appear to have in the millions).

Just think, if anyone actually paid for FC then the product might become a little more fitting for the name. A snack basket and a (plastic) glass of something fizzy is worth the square root of f-all to the majority. Start charging realistic fares and providing decent service, then back-fill with the very occasional upgrade to lure them in and you'll have a decent proposition. Otherwise just go to an all Y service. It works quite well for SWA & B6 I believe!

If you are just passing through, keep going!
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 1:35 pm
  #36  
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I'm waiting for some threads/complaints to start about "I paid the extra $59 for a F seat but had to sit in Y because of irrops". Those P fares show up as an x-up, which we know DL has a tendancy to shaft pax on by pulling the 'its only a coach with upgrade' seat even though the website and your itinerary might show it as full F if you click the link.
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 1:49 pm
  #37  
 
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This thread, along with the others I have recently seen pop up really pains me to read. As a long-time CO Plat, I saw just how destructive the upsell behavior can be. It is however not too bad if the YBM fares are priced high....unfortunately, at CO, they were not, and on DL they are not either...that may very well translate in lots of cheap buy-ups and the extinction of decent upgrade rates for anyone not paying YBM fares.

The fact that the reactions from DL fliers are this strong this early in the implementation process tells me that this will be a very painful experiment.

The good news is that CO is effectively rolling back the monetization of F program by significantly raising YBM fares after they had a look at the UA books.

Good luck to you all.
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 2:07 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by Swiss Tony
Just passing through - literally. I saw this thread on the first page of FT and it's quite frankly a joke.

FC should be there to be paid for. To be aspirational. To be for the CEO or maybe the holiday of a lifetime. The US legacy carriers have created a monster through this upgrade expectation to loyal customers (of which they appear to have in the millions).

Just think, if anyone actually paid for FC then the product might become a little more fitting for the name. A snack basket and a (plastic) glass of something fizzy is worth the square root of f-all to the majority. Start charging realistic fares and providing decent service, then back-fill with the very occasional upgrade to lure them in and you'll have a decent proposition. Otherwise just go to an all Y service. It works quite well for SWA & B6 I believe!
Who Are You, Who Are So Wise in the Ways of Science?
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 2:18 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewpartyman
...but when in LAX en route to HNL they were selling gate upgrades for (don't quote me) $200 bucks and it may appear that it's a quick buck for them. What they forget is that a Diamond is sitting in Coach who spent $600 more to fly them in the first place.
the hawaii upgrades aren't available on lut tickets, so if you got a low fare ticket, folks who paid for the $200 upgrade probably paid more than you did.
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 2:24 pm
  #40  
 
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Actually, what we are talking about here is not F cabin. In DL 's own terms it's Premium. So it actually is only a bit more of legroom and not much else. And E+ is added for those pissed off medallions that missed an upgrade so they'd still feel a little bit more special than others.
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 2:39 pm
  #41  
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Originally Posted by mike_plat
Who Are You, Who Are So Wise in the Ways of Science?
Apologies. I live in a parallel universe where DL upgrade Kool-Aid isn't served on draft.

Also, like a criminal, I couldn't help returning to the scene of the crime (although I'm thinking what i've done is more the equivalent of a dog defecating on a croquet lawn during the afternoon tea break for cucumber sandwiches).

Anyway, find me in a DL "F" cabin some time soon (having actually paid an F fare for it...)
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 3:02 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Swiss Tony
cucumber sandwiches).
Mmmmm, cucumber sandwiches....mmmmmm
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 3:04 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by Swiss Tony
Apologies. I live in a parallel universe where DL upgrade Kool-Aid isn't served on draft.

Also, like a criminal, I couldn't help returning to the scene of the crime (although I'm thinking what i've done is more the equivalent of a dog defecating on a croquet lawn during the afternoon tea break for cucumber sandwiches).

Anyway, find me in a DL "F" cabin some time soon (having actually paid an F fare for it...)
Let's see if you're still ecstatic about paying for F if/when DL increases its F fares to UA/AA levels.
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 3:04 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by ClipperDelta
There are no extra special/discounted First Class upgrade supplements involved. They have this all the time (e.g., upgrade to BusinessElite for an extra $2500 over your selected fare at the time of booking, etc.).

What am I missing here?
I don't think you're missing a thing. I am growing tired of all of these threads on this subject.

If there develops a systematic, widespread offering of substantially-discounted add-on pricing to sit in F from a deeply discounted fare (e.g., someone with a $248 fare offered F for $89 more), that will be one thing. And it could happen -- and perhaps already is on a trial here or there.

But an upsell offer to a $1700 fare is nothing better than good business on the part of the airline, and why people cannot understand that baffles me. Moreover, it clutters up this board to the point that you can't find the real news (which would be the very cheap upgrade option from a cheap fare) because it's buried in all the non-news ("First Class offered for only $1700! The horrors!").

Now, the valid point made somewhere in this thread is that tweaking the website to offer slick upsell suggestions and offers somehow got done, and done effectively, yet the award engine still lags woefully behind on the IT to-do list. That is very disappointing.
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 3:22 pm
  #45  
 
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I think they still may want to tweak their upsell logic a bit to perhaps not offer an opportunity like I got this morning when checking on prices for a MSP-GRU run at the end of March.

For only $7800 more, you can enjoy First Class.

I was not enticed.
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