RIP CVG

Old Jun 26, 2011, 7:52 pm
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Bagels
I do wish to clarify that I'm not attempting to contribute to an “us vs. them” debate.

...
I understand, and did not interpret your post that way.

Others sought to turn the thread in that dark direction.
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 8:06 pm
  #107  
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Originally Posted by ryandc99
Well it is neither hot or spicy! It is in its own category... take a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_chili

I expect a report when you try it!
Now, if you could only take food into the Sky Club, you could have chili and Woodford Reserve.

Another distinction feature of CVG... the only Sky Club (that I am aware of) that still serves WR.

I truly regret seeing what has happened to CVG over the last 15 years.

I always enjoyed the irony of an airport that wasn't even in the same state as its titular city (I mean Cincinnati, not Covington).

And, finally, since I grew up only one state away, I always enjoyed the common sense, down-to-earth customer service I received in CVG.

A little airport (and Ohio) trivia... who knows how the Fifth Third Bank got its name and why it wasn't the Third Fifth Bank? (Relevant, since there is a branch right across the concourse from the entrance to the Sky Club).
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 8:27 pm
  #108  
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Originally Posted by StayingHomeIsBetter
Now, if you could only take food into the Sky Club, you could have chili and Woodford Reserve.

Another distinction feature of CVG... the only Sky Club (that I am aware of) that still serves WR.

I truly regret seeing what has happened to CVG over the last 15 years.

I always enjoyed the irony of an airport that wasn't even in the same state as its titular city (I mean Cincinnati, not Covington).

And, finally, since I grew up only one state away, I always enjoyed the common sense, down-to-earth customer service I received in CVG.

A little airport (and Ohio) trivia... who knows how the Fifth Third Bank got its name and why it wasn't the Third Fifth Bank? (Relevant, since there is a branch right across the concourse from the entrance to the Sky Club).
I had to cheat and look it up... I always assumed it had something to do with 513... but it appears that is not the case and it was the new name after the merger of 5th National and 3rd National banks.
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 8:32 pm
  #109  
 
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Originally Posted by joesolo
CVG was built as a world class airport with three north south 10,000 foot runways. My hope (I live in Cincinnati) was that Memphis would go. Under Northwest, it was slowly dying if not dead. The idea of a more southerly regional hub to offload ATL seems rather obvious. Why Memphis was chosen for the region (southern OH, KY, TEN, ARK, TX, KS,OK etc.) is beyond me. Crummy terminal. Poor runways (# and length).
We'll see what the next 10 years brings as the economy recovers and airline traffic returns.

Three N/S runways CVG:
8000; 10,000; and 11,000 ft

Three N/S runways MEM:
9,000; 9,000+; 11,000+ ft

Both have E/W runways of about 12 and 9,000 ft respectively. I think the two airports are comparable.
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 8:41 pm
  #110  
 
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Originally Posted by joesolo
CVG was built as a world class airport with three north south 10,000 foot runways. My hope (I live in Cincinnati) was that Memphis would go. Under Northwest, it was slowly dying if not dead. The idea of a more southerly regional hub to offload ATL seems rather obvious. Why Memphis was chosen for the region (southern OH, KY, TEN, ARK, TX, KS,OK etc.) is beyond me. Crummy terminal. Poor runways (# and length).
We'll see what the next 10 years brings as the economy recovers and airline traffic returns.
Yeah, can you imagine what would happen if someone tried to base a global shipping company @ MEM? They'd have to ship everything on turboprops, the runways are so short
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 8:55 pm
  #111  
 
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Originally Posted by acf1270
CVG is Cincinnati, not Cleveland.
Well, really Kentucky, but who is counting
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 8:58 pm
  #112  
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Originally Posted by ryandc99
I had to cheat and look it up... I always assumed it had something to do with 513... but it appears that is not the case and it was the new name after the merger of 5th National and 3rd National banks.
Done during the time of Prohibition, and Third Fifth Bank sounded too much like a reference to then illegal libations.
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 9:03 pm
  #113  
 
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The Gold Star and Chick Fil A across the way from each other made for some difficult dining decisions...

5-way Chili washed down with a Chick-Fil-A sandwich was my CVG layover meal. Calories/waistline be damned.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 8:48 am
  #114  
 
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Originally Posted by ryandc99
This isn't normal Chili! I still crave Skyline... Can't wait to be back in Ohio this week and have some!
While we are jumping on the chuck wagon...oops, band wagon! I'm craving a Double-Double Animal Style from In-n-Out!^^^^^
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 8:50 am
  #115  
 
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PIT used to be great too. PIT, CVG, casualties of consolidation.

In the case of CVG, I have to think the large traffic bleed to DAY was a factor.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 10:34 am
  #116  
 
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If you look at population shifts in the US the dehubbing of rustbelt and midwest hubs in all but larger cities makes sense. Population growth in the middle of the country is relatively small or declining. The coasts and the sunbelt are where the new jobs and the new people are.

Nearly every small to mid-sized midwest / rustbelt city with a hub has or is losing it: PIT, CMH, CVG, STL, MCI, MEM, BNA. MKE has been surviving partly from the lift it gets from being so close to Chicago. CLE will be the next to fall when the UA-CO merger moves further along. An equidistant hub between ORD and EWR does not make sense...especially in a slowly growing market like CLE.

It is sad when a market loses a hub. Jobs and prestige go with it. But, economies of scale are what they are. Me: I'll take ATL or DTW over MEM and CVG any day of the week. But that's just me.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 2:06 pm
  #117  
 
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Originally Posted by SOBE ER DOC
If you look at population shifts in the US the dehubbing of rustbelt and midwest hubs in all but larger cities makes sense. Population growth in the middle of the country is relatively small or declining. The coasts and the sunbelt are where the new jobs and the new people are.

Nearly every small to mid-sized midwest / rustbelt city with a hub has or is losing it: PIT, CMH, CVG, STL, MCI, MEM, BNA.
BNA is more like a sunbelt city than rustbelt. The metro area has doubled its size in 30 years from roughly 700,000 to 1.5 million. It lost its short-lived AA hub, but its current passenger traffic is about what it was at the height of the AA hub. And it's now mostly OD traffic, not connecting traffic.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 5:59 pm
  #118  
 
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The DL CVG hub must have been sucessful as they kept adding new service,
even to HNL on 11-1-2003. So when and why did they start to cut service.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 7:50 pm
  #119  
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Originally Posted by buckeyefanflyer
The DL CVG hub must have been sucessful as they kept adding new service,
even to HNL on 11-1-2003. So when and why did they start to cut service.
Actually, meaningful cuts did not start until oil spiked in 2008. But that was enough of an excuse for Dick to start cutting a hub we all knew would have to be cut, despite the promises made to the community to get the merger through with as little opposition as possible.

A hub had to be cut, and the first one was not going to be a NW legacy hub. The oil prices gave Dick the impetus needed to start the downsizing in CVG.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 8:27 pm
  #120  
 
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Why do you continue to choose to ignore facts?

As 3Cforme pointed out in reply #59, DL announced a 26% reduction at CVG in late 2005. The cuts deepened during its bankruptcy and by summer 2008, CVG had shrank by nearly 50%. The cuts began before Richard Anderson became CEO; the summer 2008 schedule was designed before a merger was announced with NW and before fuel soared. Simultaneously, DL added capacity at SLC.

Fall 2008, post fuel crisis, CVG had fallen to just 250 departures.
1) In the decade prior, DL attempted a multitude of strategies at CVG; none were successful.
2) The lack of success at CVG played deeply into DL's decision to merge with NW. Had CVG been successful, DL may have continued to move forward as a standalone carrier.
3) Richard Anderson was primarily brought on board to orchestrate a DL-NW merger.
4) Even if DL would've proceeded as a standalone carrier, it's unlikely CVG's traffic levels would've recovered beyond the 250 flowing from the airport in fall 2008.

The Cincinnati-area simply cannot support a large, full-scale hub. And FWIW, CVG-HNL was very short lived and undoubtedly an attempt to fill seats with higher-yielding fares.

Originally Posted by Feather Man
Actually, meaningful cuts did not start until oil spiked in 2008. But that was enough of an excuse for Dick to start cutting a hub we all knew would have to be cut, despite the promises made to the community to get the merger through with as little opposition as possible.

A hub had to be cut, and the first one was not going to be a NW legacy hub. The oil prices gave Dick the impetus needed to start the downsizing in CVG.

Last edited by Bagels; Jun 28, 2011 at 2:53 pm
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