RIP CVG

Old Jun 25, 2011, 9:57 am
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
As for Delta leaving Detroit, they're giving it a hell of a run before they (allegedly) do. Don't overlook DTW-PVG, DTW-ICN, DTW-HKG, DTW-GRU and coming DTW-PEK, all started post-merger (and many flown with legacy-Delta aircraft).
Where is this rumour of DL leaving DTW coming from? It just seems like something someone posted in this thread as fact...

Maybe I am missing something.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 10:10 am
  #62  
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Originally Posted by james318
Where is this rumour of DL leaving DTW coming from? It just seems like something someone posted in this thread as fact...

Maybe I am missing something.
We are both missing it because all I see from DL is advertising highlighting DTW and I see more service being added to it. I guess I do not get how you can take two airlines that were fairly large, combine them and eliminate more than half the hubs (MEM/CVG/SLC/DTW) and still handle the traffic.

3Cforme is usually pretty good with this stuff so I am really shocked to hear it from him. I would love to hear how this will happen if in fact it is a real rumor.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 10:14 am
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Originally Posted by avidflyer
We are both missing it because all I see from DL is advertising highlighting DTW and I see more service being added to it. I guess I do not get how you can take two airlines that were fairly large, combine them and eliminate more than half the hubs (MEM/CVG/SLC/DTW) and still handle the traffic.

3Cforme is usually pretty good with this stuff so I am really shocked to hear it from him. I would love to hear how this will happen if in fact it is a real rumor.
That is what I am seeing as well. I just don't get it. My guess is that 3Cforme though might be just playing the "what if" because someone else brought it up. At least I am hoping. It seems like they are trying to prove a point against it. (Talking about the added service and what not...)
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 11:00 am
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by pbarnette
I don't think that is accurate.
But it is .
-In the late 1990s/early 2000s, BA operated DTW-LHR an average of 10x weekly with 777 and 744.
-LH began DTW-FRA in 1998 with 340, upgraded to the 744 and ultimately went twice-daily 333 in the mid-2000s.
-Also in the mid-2000s, NW dumped additional capacity into Europe (including LGW and FRA) with 757 and added its alliance partner AF to DTW-CDG.

No doubt BA was struggling to compete as it begin tagging IAH to its DTW service. Between Detroit's economic collapse (which preceded the national), development of Open Skies and Pfizer closing its Ann Arbor research center (which contributed big revenue to BA), a decision was made to end the flight.

There's constantly speculation that now that the market has settled down, BA may return.

Certainly, I would think that DTW has more O/D demand for foreign travel than CVG, but it has never had remotely the level of service of the major foreign gateways.
I agree that DTW is not a major international gateway, nor was I arguing it was. However, there's few major international gateways and beyond NYC, most have their niche. That said, DTW has solid international demand (it's a top-seven market to Asia and while it may be closer to 100th than 5th, it's still a solid performance) that's often underestimated within these (and other) forums.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 11:12 am
  #65  
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Originally Posted by james318
Where is this rumour of DL leaving DTW coming from? It just seems like something someone posted in this thread as fact...

Maybe I am missing something.
I was responding to other posts about elimination of the DTW hub. DTW isn't going anywhere. Delta's MSP hub isn't going anywhere. SLC may be growing (I struggle to find year-over-year flight and destination data.)

MEM, on the other hand, has issues - but I'll save that for another thread.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 11:19 am
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
SLC may be growing (I struggle to find year-over-year flight and destination data.)
This fall, SLC will shrink; its daily departures will peak in the 250s.

Since the merger, its breadth of service has increased (e.g. IND) but frequencies have been reduced as well as average aircraft size. MSP has picked-up a lot of relinquished capacity (e.g. new service to RNO, mainline service to BZN and other Mountain West destinations in the winter, etc.). But SLC still has HNL.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 11:47 am
  #67  
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Originally Posted by avidflyer
This is the first I am hearing that people think there are plans to shut down DTW. Are they just going to split the flights up across ATL and MSP? ...
Yes, ATL is so underutilized, I could see how DL management, in all of their infinite wisdom, would want to bring more flights thru there.

After all, things are done better when they are done in, through, or by ATL.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 1:32 pm
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Bagels
This fall, SLC will shrink; its daily departures will peak in the 250s.

Since the merger, its breadth of service has increased (e.g. IND) but frequencies have been reduced as well as average aircraft size. MSP has picked-up a lot of relinquished capacity (e.g. new service to RNO, mainline service to BZN and other Mountain West destinations in the winter, etc.). But SLC still has HNL.
This is not accurate. Delta has increased quite a few SLC flights size and has increased the number of seats total in there in recent years. There is Tokyo and Paris as the flagship routes in addition to HNL. Delta is doing alot of seasonal temporary slashing systemwide all hubs have this. SLC peaks in summer and winter with tourism alot so this is just smart business at a hub with a large percentage of tourism. MSP has lost quite a bit of mountain west traffic and alot of plane downsizing FYI compared to pre-merger days.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 1:46 pm
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Originally Posted by chrisbond1000
I hate CVG! I got shot in Cleveland in February and almost died on the way to MetroHealth. I'm never going there for business again, and I hope DL totally abandons that place!
Ummmm.......wrong city in Ohio.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 2:22 pm
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Originally Posted by SkiUtah
This is not accurate.
What I wrote is entirely correct. In recent weeks, DL has upgraded flights from MSP to BIL, BZN, etc. this fall to mainline while simultaneously cutting flights from SLC. The fact that MSP is seeing capacity increases to Mountain West destinations (and in some cases, new service such RNO) while SLC is simultaneously seeing decreases is not a coincidence. The 30+ flight reduction SLC will see this fall vs. last is a significant reduction. Yes, capacity will be down at each hub but SLC's cuts rival those of only MEM.

I'm not speculating on the future of SLC, nor do I believe SLC will be dehubbed, I'm merely stating facts.

---------------

What surprises me is how many people believe DTW will be and/or should be dehubbed without presenting any facts. The sentiment is bad on here, worse on airliners. Although mainline has been slashed at DTW, the overall number of flights has soared -- despite huge cuts within the Greak Lakes region. Intercontinental expansion has made DTW the only hub post-merger to experience any significant ASM growth.

Meanwhile, MSP has seen a larger drop in mainline than DTW (since in 2008 NW was operating a larger number of mainline flights at MSP) yet nobody connects this as a prelude to the hub's demise.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 3:26 pm
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Bagels
What surprises me is how many people believe DTW will be and/or should be dehubbed without presenting any facts.
It shouldn't surprise you. There is a contingent that has a story to tell (DL destroying NW) that will twist trivial schedule changes into something they are not. There is also the issue that people who live in the DTW area live in the DTW area and have abandoned hope as a result.

Originally Posted by Bagels
Meanwhile, MSP has seen a larger drop in mainline than DTW (since in 2008 NW was operating a larger number of mainline flights at MSP) yet nobody connects this as a prelude to the hub's demise.
There are any number of threads with speculation about the de-hubbing of MSP. None of them have much in the way of evidence or even logic to support the claims, but there is definitely a subset of folks here that repeat the claims nonetheless.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 4:15 pm
  #72  
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Originally Posted by pbarnette
It shouldn't surprise you. There is a contingent that has a story to tell (DL destroying NW) .


How does this have anything to do with NW airlines? Other than they were using DTW I have no idea how you are making this leap...a lot of airlines used and still use DTW...what does that have to do with the claim that DL is planning to de-hub DTW????

And, where and who in this thread are suggesting anything about NW airlines except YOU? WHERE?
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 4:20 pm
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Originally Posted by avidflyer
How does this have anything to do with NW airlines? Other than they were using DTW I have no idea how you are making this leap...a lot of airlines used and still use DTW...what does that have to do with the claim that DL is planning to de-hub DTW????

And, where and who in this thread are suggesting anything about NW airlines except YOU? WHERE?
There's numerous people suggesting, including many within this thread, that DL will dehub DTW. I pondered where those thoughts were coming from since there's no evidence (and evidence to the contrary) to suggest such.

There's a sentiment within these forums among a small faction that DL's out to destroy NW's heritage, and thus he's suggesting that sentiment may be fueling the claims of DTW's dehubbing.

It's a valid point .
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 4:32 pm
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Bagels
There's numerous people suggesting, including many within this thread, that DL will dehub DTW. I pondered where those thoughts were coming from since there's no evidence (and evidence to the contrary) to suggest such.

There's a sentiment within these forums among a small faction that DL's out to destroy NW's heritage, and thus he's suggesting that sentiment may be fueling the claims of DTW's dehubbing.

It's a valid point .
Thank you for the explanation. I guess I don't see it because the merger happened 2 years ago..I look at DTW as a Delta Hub and when NW was around it was a NW hub. I just do not see any relevance to its future and I certainly do not think there is an evil plan to destroy it, quite the opposite IMO.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 5:43 pm
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Does this mean that I DL will route me through MSP to go to Montana instead of SLC? SLC makes sense for those of us who do not live east of the Sierra Nevada mountains and MSP does not.

Originally Posted by Bagels
What I wrote is entirely correct. In recent weeks, DL has upgraded flights from MSP to BIL, BZN, etc. this fall to mainline while simultaneously cutting flights from SLC. The fact that MSP is seeing capacity increases to Mountain West destinations (and in some cases, new service such RNO) while SLC is simultaneously seeing decreases is not a coincidence. The 30+ flight reduction SLC will see this fall vs. last is a significant reduction. Yes, capacity will be down at each hub but SLC's cuts rival those of only MEM.

I'm not speculating on the future of SLC, nor do I believe SLC will be dehubbed, I'm merely stating facts.

---------------

What surprises me is how many people believe DTW will be and/or should be dehubbed without presenting any facts. The sentiment is bad on here, worse on airliners. Although mainline has been slashed at DTW, the overall number of flights has soared -- despite huge cuts within the Greak Lakes region. Intercontinental expansion has made DTW the only hub post-merger to experience any significant ASM growth.

Meanwhile, MSP has seen a larger drop in mainline than DTW (since in 2008 NW was operating a larger number of mainline flights at MSP) yet nobody connects this as a prelude to the hub's demise.
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