RIP CVG

Old Jun 24, 2011, 10:10 pm
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Feather Man
My point exactly. What if they had picked CVG over DTW? O&D traffic is inconsequential....it is the connecting traffic that makes or breaks it. And pre-merger, CVG had the connecting traffic.

Did I mention how much I hate NW ? But you gotta love flying TPAC in Y on their old 747's

Flintstones, meet the Flintstones...NW's modern family
LOL! I completely agree. CVG is awesome! I havn't had a moment's trouble from any CVG employee. Due to a late flight I had a ten minute connection once and I had to change aircraft from B to C using the shuttle bus. Not only did they hold the plane for me but my baggage arrived as well! I have never encountered that kind of service anywhere else.
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Old Jun 24, 2011, 10:14 pm
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I first started to fly for work in Fall 2002. I would do SDF-CVG-XXX every Thursday morning. I remember that 5:40am flight very well, and it was just a 12 minute flight to start the day. By the end of the year, SDF-CVG will be gone. I'll miss that quick 83 mile flight that earned me 500 MQMs.
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Old Jun 24, 2011, 10:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Feather Man
So why didn't Toyota pick DTW to be their N. American HQ?
Toyota's overall HQ in the US is Torrence, CA. Their MANUFACTURING division HQ is in Hebron, KY, north of the Georgetown plant.

Toyota & Subaru/Nissan/Honda/Hyundai all have engineering centers 15 miles west of DTW. Many Tier1 suppliers have plants/offices on the I75 or M14. Ford and GM have been expanding their Chinese footprint quite a bit in the last few years as well.

Just based on car-related travel, DTW in all probability generates more East Asian traffic than CVG.
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Old Jun 24, 2011, 10:29 pm
  #49  
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Originally Posted by pokeable
Toyota's overall HQ in the US is Torrence, CA. Their MANUFACTURING division HQ is in Hebron, KY, north of the Georgetown plant.
This map would suggest otherwise

http://www.clarionledger.com/assets/pdf/D063750227.PDF
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Old Jun 24, 2011, 10:35 pm
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Originally Posted by Feather Man
He's correct:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_...,_U.S.A.,_Inc.

And the map doesn't suggest otherwise .
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Old Jun 24, 2011, 10:47 pm
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I think DL does care about getting more pax from the DTW area.

They are sponsoring the Tigers now which I've never seen before.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 2:11 am
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Originally Posted by Feather Man
Toyota in Erlanger, KY does very little Japan travel... mostly travel to US plants as it's their job to support them.

Toyota in Ann arbor and in torrance, ca as mentioned before does the crux of the Japan travel as that relates to design and development which is also done in japan.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 3:30 am
  #53  
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For ex-NW people, any suggestion that DTW might be de-hubbed, is blasphemy. My gut feeling is that DTW might disappear.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 3:42 am
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Originally Posted by Feather Man
No worries...gold star won't go away, just like the heartburn it leaves you with.

And CVG just announced that they will close Terminal 2 and move CO, UA & US into A concourse
Along with AA and AC
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 4:13 am
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We all know that the closure of DTW is due to the myopic MSP-DTW centric thinking from Richard Anderson and his former NW cronies. They only know how to run a regional, Upper Midwest airline. It has nothing to do with DTW being a significantly larger market.

Originally Posted by Bagels
DTW has service from LH, RJ and had service from BA until the economic collapse.
I don't think that is accurate. BA ended DTW service as soon as Open Skies came along and they were no longer limited in which cities could see LHR service. As this was announced before Open Skies was implemented, the decision was clearly made prior to the current recession. Moreover, one should remember that this flight had a tag-on to IAH. Given that BA replaced the LHR-DTW-IAH service with LHR-IAH, I would think that DTW-LHR was not a big enough market to warrant a route on its own for BA, and that IAH-LHR demand was likely the key driver.

Certainly, I would think that DTW has more O/D demand for foreign travel than CVG, but it has never had remotely the level of service of the major foreign gateways.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 6:45 am
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Originally Posted by pbarnette
I don't think that is accurate. BA ended DTW service as soon as Open Skies came along and they were no longer limited in which cities could see LHR service. As this was announced before Open Skies was implemented, the decision was clearly made prior to the current recession. Moreover, one should remember that this flight had a tag-on to IAH. Given that BA replaced the LHR-DTW-IAH service with LHR-IAH, I would think that DTW-LHR was not a big enough market to warrant a route on its own for BA, and that IAH-LHR demand was likely the key driver.

Certainly, I would think that DTW has more O/D demand for foreign travel than CVG, but it has never had remotely the level of service of the major foreign gateways.
Prior to open skies, the LHR-IAH route actually operated via ORD (for many years - on a 777) in addition to the 10xweekly LGW service.

LHR-DTW (without any continuation) ran for many years, then went from 777 to 767 but still wasn't profitable when the economy took a dump. However BA is still eyeing the route carefully and I've no doubt they'd be in their in a flash if NW was out. At one point there was double daily LGW-DTW in addition to BA LHR-DTW.

Last edited by SamuelS; Jun 25, 2011 at 6:51 am
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 8:41 am
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
For ex-NW people, any suggestion that DTW might be de-hubbed, is blasphemy. My gut feeling is that DTW might disappear.





This is the first I am hearing that people think there are plans to shut down DTW. Are they just going to split the flights up across ATL and MSP?

MEM, SLC and CVG are gone/going so that leaves ATL and MSP. There are not that many flights in and out of DTW anyway so it should be pretty easy.

You people are freaks.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 8:49 am
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Originally Posted by Bagels
He's correct:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_...,_U.S.A.,_Inc.

And the map doesn't suggest otherwise .
Shrug. Still doesn't change the fact that DTW with the plethora of auto-related HQs/tech centers has much more travel to/from E.Asia than the CVG area does.

C'est la vie. This thread won't change anything.
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 9:33 am
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Originally Posted by pbarnette
We all know that the closure of DTW is due to the myopic MSP-DTW centric thinking from Richard Anderson and his former NW cronies. They only know how to run a regional, Upper Midwest airline. It has nothing to do with DTW being a significantly larger market.
Some people may miss your sarcasm!

Any analysis must start with a command of facts. (Thanks you, bagels, among others.) DL @ CVG was shrinking long before the merger. See this 26% reduction in late 2005.

http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-N...ional-service/

Delta tried lower fares to stimulate demand. Remember the Simplifares experiment attempted before that 2005 service reduction?

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/s...3/daily24.html

The number of 600+ flight per day hubs worldwide without significant O&D traffic can be counted on the fingers of a badly mutilated hand.

U.S. airlines have been abandoning lesser hubs for two decades: AA bailed on SJC, RDU and BNA. US bailed on LAS and PIT; BWI was taken from them by WN. DL dehubbed DFW. CO left DEN.

As for Delta leaving Detroit, they're giving it a hell of a run before they (allegedly) do. Don't overlook DTW-PVG, DTW-ICN, DTW-HKG, DTW-GRU and coming DTW-PEK, all started post-merger (and many flown with legacy-Delta aircraft).
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Old Jun 25, 2011, 9:45 am
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
Some people may miss your sarcasm!

Any analysis must start with a command of facts. (Thanks you, bagels, among others.) DL @ CVG was shrinking long before the merger. See this 26% reduction in late 2005.

http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-N...ional-service/

Delta tried lower fares to stimulate demand. Remember the Simplifares experiment attempted before that 2005 service reduction?

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/s...3/daily24.html

The number of 600+ flight per day hubs worldwide without significant O&D traffic can be counted on the fingers of a badly mutilated hand.

U.S. airlines have been abandoning lesser hubs for two decades: AA bailed on SJC, RDU and BNA. US bailed on LAS and PIT; BWI was taken from them by WN. DL dehubbed DFW. CO left DEN.

As for Delta leaving Detroit, they're giving it a hell of a run before they (allegedly) do. Don't overlook DTW-PVG, DTW-ICN, DTW-HKG, DTW-GRU and coming DTW-PEK, all started post-merger (and many flown with legacy-Delta aircraft).
So is the suggestion that ATL and MSP can handle all of the DTW traffic?
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