“Shena”: The Definitive “Shenanigans” Thread
Apr 21, 2019, 10:57 pm
#3301
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, MM, NR; HH Diamond, Bonvoy LT Gold, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Diamond, others
Posts: 12,159
I don't think that the rules are published anywhere that we would have access to them, but experience and anecdotal reports (and logic) suggest that the tiebreaker rules would be the same, just at a tier above the comp upgrade process.
My theory is that a DM on a Y/B/M with a Reserve and a "corporate travel designator" using an RUC would rank above a DM with the same fare, card, etc. But.... I ALSO believe that an FO on an L/U/T/V fare who is using an RUC that they earned last year before dropping status would also be ahead of a DM on Y/B/M, Reserve card, etc.
So in my imagination, it would look like this:
My theory is that a DM on a Y/B/M with a Reserve and a "corporate travel designator" using an RUC would rank above a DM with the same fare, card, etc. But.... I ALSO believe that an FO on an L/U/T/V fare who is using an RUC that they earned last year before dropping status would also be ahead of a DM on Y/B/M, Reserve card, etc.
So in my imagination, it would look like this:
- RUC/GUC (for domestic I believe that they are equal*)
- Medallion Level
- Fare Class
- Reserve Card
- Corporate Travel Designator
- Time of upgrade request
- No RUC/GUC
- Medallion Level
- Fare Class
- Reserve Card
- Corporate Travel Designator
- Time of upgrade request
- Medallion Level
- Time of Request
Apr 22, 2019, 7:32 am
#3302
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,097
Are we sure that medallion level matters when on the waitlist? I've seen a couple of things that indicate time of request is the only thing that matters before the gate.
Apr 22, 2019, 7:59 am
#3303
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska 75K, Wyndham Diamond,
Posts: 15,398
But a RUC/GUC will still trump a comp. upgrade correct (i.e. a PM on an RUC with an M fare will trump a PM with a T fare on an RUC that had requested it earlier and will trump a diamond on any fare that isn't using an instrument)?
Apr 22, 2019, 12:27 pm
#3305
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM, UA Gold, Alaska MVP, Bonvoy (lol) Ambassador
Posts: 2,994
Apr 22, 2019, 10:05 pm
#3306
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, MM, NR; HH Diamond, Bonvoy LT Gold, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Diamond, others
Posts: 12,159
Apr 22, 2019, 10:06 pm
#3307
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, MM, NR; HH Diamond, Bonvoy LT Gold, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Diamond, others
Posts: 12,159
At the gate, yes, PM/RUC/M beats PM/RUC/T beats DM/no RUC/Y.
May 9, 2019, 3:42 am
#3308
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC, CDG, NCE
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 2,633
Ok, first question is am I correct that a GUC should clear before NRSAs are cleared into D1 from the waitlist?
If so, then I have proof that I caught Shena and that's annoying in and of itself, but unfortunately not surprising.
Last week, though I had a GUC waitlisted on JFK-CDG and something else might have happened.
T-30 I was told at the lounge that my upgrade had not cleared and D1 was full, but two names from waitlist had been cleared into the 2 seats that were available for purchase at T-90.
I pressed on this and confirmed that at least one NRSA had been assigned to one of those two seats
(I have proof of this fact - although I probably shouldn't so I'm not going to post anything about that in case it could get someone in trouble)
The Lounge agent was very responsive, called the gate to inquire and after several minutes, I was magically cleared into 2A. (on the 330).
I don't love that front seat, but ok. Then once in the air I discovered that my IFE didn't work. FA reset it 3 times - still nothing - and at the end of the flight came by to offer me the usual 15k, which was nice.
I've written to delta about the fight for the seat, just to get it on the record. I didn't ask for or expect any compensation - but it just dawned on me that I wonder if 2A had been taken out of service because they knew the IFE was INOP and they weren't going to sell it, but then gave it to me when the lounge agent called.
Not sure if there's any way for me to know the truth, but that just seems like a big FU on top of the original FU and it's bugging me.
Even if I'm wrong about the order of operations and clearing my upgrade was an afterthought that they finally had time to look at after clearing all the waitlisted people, why were they magically able to open up 2A?
I'm guessing that when I hear back from Customer Service they will be able to tell if that's what happened, but if anyone familiar with the system can tell me if that's the case, I'd appreciate it.
Or if you can tell me this absolutely didn't happen then I'd feel better and it would be much appreciated - DL262 01May
(To make the whole thing even more interesting, I looked back during boarding and saw a woman standing and seemed to be waiting for someone, at the seat that had been available and was assigned to an NRSA, but when we landed and I passed again, the seat had seemingly not been touched - blanket, pillow, water all still in place.)
Whaddya think?
If so, then I have proof that I caught Shena and that's annoying in and of itself, but unfortunately not surprising.
Last week, though I had a GUC waitlisted on JFK-CDG and something else might have happened.
T-30 I was told at the lounge that my upgrade had not cleared and D1 was full, but two names from waitlist had been cleared into the 2 seats that were available for purchase at T-90.
I pressed on this and confirmed that at least one NRSA had been assigned to one of those two seats
(I have proof of this fact - although I probably shouldn't so I'm not going to post anything about that in case it could get someone in trouble)
The Lounge agent was very responsive, called the gate to inquire and after several minutes, I was magically cleared into 2A. (on the 330).
I don't love that front seat, but ok. Then once in the air I discovered that my IFE didn't work. FA reset it 3 times - still nothing - and at the end of the flight came by to offer me the usual 15k, which was nice.
I've written to delta about the fight for the seat, just to get it on the record. I didn't ask for or expect any compensation - but it just dawned on me that I wonder if 2A had been taken out of service because they knew the IFE was INOP and they weren't going to sell it, but then gave it to me when the lounge agent called.
Not sure if there's any way for me to know the truth, but that just seems like a big FU on top of the original FU and it's bugging me.
Even if I'm wrong about the order of operations and clearing my upgrade was an afterthought that they finally had time to look at after clearing all the waitlisted people, why were they magically able to open up 2A?
I'm guessing that when I hear back from Customer Service they will be able to tell if that's what happened, but if anyone familiar with the system can tell me if that's the case, I'd appreciate it.
Or if you can tell me this absolutely didn't happen then I'd feel better and it would be much appreciated - DL262 01May
(To make the whole thing even more interesting, I looked back during boarding and saw a woman standing and seemed to be waiting for someone, at the seat that had been available and was assigned to an NRSA, but when we landed and I passed again, the seat had seemingly not been touched - blanket, pillow, water all still in place.)
Whaddya think?
May 9, 2019, 5:15 am
#3309
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: DL DM, SPG Plat 100/LT Gold, Marriott Plat, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,988
I can't speak to what DL's systems show...but it sounds like you were SHENA-ed.
Why didn't you ask the purser to have another NRSA switch seats with you?
At this point, it is what it is. I would have asked a Red Coat to meet me at the gate, then asked for their card.
Now that what's done is done, you have to know what outcome will make you happy. More miles? A voucher? The GUC re-opened? Be specific and polite but persistent for what you believe is fair.
By the way, you can also consider writing to the VP responsible for the JFK hub. Giving away free upgrades when paying customers are waiting is a fireable offense, and this GA should probably be fired. Make sure to let him know - [email protected] [you can google him and Delta's website will give you his bio, etc]
Why didn't you ask the purser to have another NRSA switch seats with you?
At this point, it is what it is. I would have asked a Red Coat to meet me at the gate, then asked for their card.
Now that what's done is done, you have to know what outcome will make you happy. More miles? A voucher? The GUC re-opened? Be specific and polite but persistent for what you believe is fair.
By the way, you can also consider writing to the VP responsible for the JFK hub. Giving away free upgrades when paying customers are waiting is a fireable offense, and this GA should probably be fired. Make sure to let him know - [email protected] [you can google him and Delta's website will give you his bio, etc]
May 9, 2019, 5:32 am
#3310
Join Date: Mar 2003
Programs: former MD-88 jumpseat Medallion. DL FO, AA PLT PRO. Marriott LT Plat.
Posts: 752
seat 2A on the A330-300 is typically "broken" for pilot crew training use and is only assignable by the gate agent. It's not a "crew rest seat" per se, because the airplane has a lower lobe crew rest bunk. However, if there's a 4th pilot onboard doing a line check, or IOE, they need to be seated in 2A as the bunk can only accommodate 1 pilot. If there isn't a 4th pilot, 2A will be "unbroke" by the GA and given to NRSA or upgrades (or an HK pax if DeltaOne is booked fully-full).
This is probably why 2A was assigned to upgrades- JFK-CDG should only be a 3-man flight deck crew & the GA would then have 2A at his/her disposal. It wouldn't likely have anything to do with IFE being INOP.
This is probably why 2A was assigned to upgrades- JFK-CDG should only be a 3-man flight deck crew & the GA would then have 2A at his/her disposal. It wouldn't likely have anything to do with IFE being INOP.
May 9, 2019, 8:18 am
#3311
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,426
Ok, first question is am I correct that a GUC should clear before NRSAs are cleared into D1 from the waitlist?
If so, then I have proof that I caught Shena and that's annoying in and of itself, but unfortunately not surprising.
Last week, though I had a GUC waitlisted on JFK-CDG and something else might have happened.
T-30 I was told at the lounge that my upgrade had not cleared and D1 was full, but two names from waitlist had been cleared into the 2 seats that were available for purchase at T-90.
I pressed on this and confirmed that at least one NRSA had been assigned to one of those two seats
(I have proof of this fact - although I probably shouldn't so I'm not going to post anything about that in case it could get someone in trouble)
The Lounge agent was very responsive, called the gate to inquire and after several minutes, I was magically cleared into 2A. (on the 330).
I don't love that front seat, but ok. Then once in the air I discovered that my IFE didn't work. FA reset it 3 times - still nothing - and at the end of the flight came by to offer me the usual 15k, which was nice.
I've written to delta about the fight for the seat, just to get it on the record. I didn't ask for or expect any compensation - but it just dawned on me that I wonder if 2A had been taken out of service because they knew the IFE was INOP and they weren't going to sell it, but then gave it to me when the lounge agent called.
Not sure if there's any way for me to know the truth, but that just seems like a big FU on top of the original FU and it's bugging me.
Even if I'm wrong about the order of operations and clearing my upgrade was an afterthought that they finally had time to look at after clearing all the waitlisted people, why were they magically able to open up 2A?
I'm guessing that when I hear back from Customer Service they will be able to tell if that's what happened, but if anyone familiar with the system can tell me if that's the case, I'd appreciate it.
Or if you can tell me this absolutely didn't happen then I'd feel better and it would be much appreciated - DL262 01May
(To make the whole thing even more interesting, I looked back during boarding and saw a woman standing and seemed to be waiting for someone, at the seat that had been available and was assigned to an NRSA, but when we landed and I passed again, the seat had seemingly not been touched - blanket, pillow, water all still in place.)
Whaddya think?
If so, then I have proof that I caught Shena and that's annoying in and of itself, but unfortunately not surprising.
Last week, though I had a GUC waitlisted on JFK-CDG and something else might have happened.
T-30 I was told at the lounge that my upgrade had not cleared and D1 was full, but two names from waitlist had been cleared into the 2 seats that were available for purchase at T-90.
I pressed on this and confirmed that at least one NRSA had been assigned to one of those two seats
(I have proof of this fact - although I probably shouldn't so I'm not going to post anything about that in case it could get someone in trouble)
The Lounge agent was very responsive, called the gate to inquire and after several minutes, I was magically cleared into 2A. (on the 330).
I don't love that front seat, but ok. Then once in the air I discovered that my IFE didn't work. FA reset it 3 times - still nothing - and at the end of the flight came by to offer me the usual 15k, which was nice.
I've written to delta about the fight for the seat, just to get it on the record. I didn't ask for or expect any compensation - but it just dawned on me that I wonder if 2A had been taken out of service because they knew the IFE was INOP and they weren't going to sell it, but then gave it to me when the lounge agent called.
Not sure if there's any way for me to know the truth, but that just seems like a big FU on top of the original FU and it's bugging me.
Even if I'm wrong about the order of operations and clearing my upgrade was an afterthought that they finally had time to look at after clearing all the waitlisted people, why were they magically able to open up 2A?
I'm guessing that when I hear back from Customer Service they will be able to tell if that's what happened, but if anyone familiar with the system can tell me if that's the case, I'd appreciate it.
Or if you can tell me this absolutely didn't happen then I'd feel better and it would be much appreciated - DL262 01May
(To make the whole thing even more interesting, I looked back during boarding and saw a woman standing and seemed to be waiting for someone, at the seat that had been available and was assigned to an NRSA, but when we landed and I passed again, the seat had seemingly not been touched - blanket, pillow, water all still in place.)
Whaddya think?
May 9, 2019, 12:23 pm
#3312
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC, CDG, NCE
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 2,633
It didn't even occur to me - I had a pile of work to do and I didn't even notice until a couple of hours in.
But honestly, it doesn't feel good - especially 2-hours in. I found other things to do, I got more sleep and I got a pile of miles.
I want Delta to respect the stated order of making seats available and employees to follow their own rules - If I had really been looking forward to some IFE for some reason, I might have considered it, but employees are people too and as long as they legit got their seats, let them have their movies.
(As I think about it, this is just a matter of priorities - if the seat didn't recline I would certainly have made a stink about it, so really just about what matters to you I guess)
I guess that's also the answer to what compensation I want, too... I hadn't really been thinking in terms of compensation, because I didn't really lose anything that I need to be compensated for.
Maybe I'll ask for another GUC as punitive damages though (
),
That's interesting information - thanks.
So sounds like it wasn't that - In fact, they could possibly make the argument that they were still planning to clear me into 2A and there wasn't any wrongdoing at all, although they still would have done it out of order.
But honestly, it doesn't feel good - especially 2-hours in. I found other things to do, I got more sleep and I got a pile of miles.
I want Delta to respect the stated order of making seats available and employees to follow their own rules - If I had really been looking forward to some IFE for some reason, I might have considered it, but employees are people too and as long as they legit got their seats, let them have their movies.
(As I think about it, this is just a matter of priorities - if the seat didn't recline I would certainly have made a stink about it, so really just about what matters to you I guess)
I guess that's also the answer to what compensation I want, too... I hadn't really been thinking in terms of compensation, because I didn't really lose anything that I need to be compensated for.
Maybe I'll ask for another GUC as punitive damages though (
),So sounds like it wasn't that - In fact, they could possibly make the argument that they were still planning to clear me into 2A and there wasn't any wrongdoing at all, although they still would have done it out of order.
seat 2A on the A330-300 is typically "broken" for pilot crew training use and is only assignable by the gate agent. It's not a "crew rest seat" per se, because the airplane has a lower lobe crew rest bunk. However, if there's a 4th pilot onboard doing a line check, or IOE, they need to be seated in 2A as the bunk can only accommodate 1 pilot. If there isn't a 4th pilot, 2A will be "unbroke" by the GA and given to NRSA or upgrades (or an HK pax if DeltaOne is booked fully-full).
This is probably why 2A was assigned to upgrades- JFK-CDG should only be a 3-man flight deck crew & the GA would then have 2A at his/her disposal. It wouldn't likely have anything to do with IFE being INOP.
This is probably why 2A was assigned to upgrades- JFK-CDG should only be a 3-man flight deck crew & the GA would then have 2A at his/her disposal. It wouldn't likely have anything to do with IFE being INOP.
May 10, 2019, 6:56 pm
#3313
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Programs: Delta DM
Posts: 425
Just curious about the attached picture...
Would these 2 on the stand by list possibly be SDS from a different first class flight? Just wondering how someone on the stand by list would get F seats ahead of those on the upgrade list?
OPS
Would these 2 on the stand by list possibly be SDS from a different first class flight? Just wondering how someone on the stand by list would get F seats ahead of those on the upgrade list?
OPS
May 10, 2019, 7:00 pm
#3314
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ORD/MDW/MKE
Programs: DL, UA
Posts: 786
Most likely paying F pax who didn't have a seat assignment.