pitbulllover

Why do I have a feeling that this is going to be a "I didn't get upgraded immediately at the window, blah, blah, blah, blah" thread and then the "ok, my upgrade finally came through but I'm still not happy, blah, blah, blah."

Seems the exact same pattern as the thread that you started on this recently.

As for AA, read my comments on the thread you started regarding this subject.

As a side, I'm going to assume you are new to the intense travel. If I could guess, maybe 2-5 years. After 15 or so, none of this becomes a concern.

Lackey99

You are correct my message is the same. However, I don't know if you understand the message. I knew I would probably get the UG. That was not my point. I think I've made my point clear. DL should show the same loyalty to me which I have shown to them. And I feel upgrading me and other elites is more important than selling a FC ticket (especially for a $59 up fee) after the UG window has opened until and unless all elites have been UG'ed (as their window allows)...between windows DL can sell what they want. That's it...period.

You are also correct...my heavy travel has been within the past five years. I am used to all the issues DL has which I previously mentioned; Tight connections, lost baggage, running around ATL, IROPS, blah blah blah. I have learned how to deal with most of them so as to minimize my discomfort. The simplest trick I've found is to plan flights with a little extra time between connections which is fine because then I can down cocktails in a SC while waiting. The reason I consolidated to DL was they seemed to deal with all those issues better than others and, once I got status, they kicked it up a couple of notches and started calling me by name.

As I've said...I'm not leaving DL. I just don't like this policy.

Tomorrow I will enjoy the fruit of my loyalty to DL as I sit in FC on both segments stretching out and downing cocktails. Hopefully my final UG for this trip will come through so I can repeat all the fun on Friday. I've already used miles for FC on my next trip to Vegas in a few weeks and K'ed up to SFO a few weeks later.

Lackey99

Pitbulloever....Last thought...it seems you think this is about 1 UG...it's not...this is about a policy which I feel is not fair to loyal elites. When I was FO two years ago I almost always cleared at the window. Early to mid-last year I started clearing at the gate. I thought it would go back to clearing at the window as a PM.

pitbulllover

If your argument is only specific to loyalty recognition, I spent approximately $75K of my own money for fares last year with Delta. What more benefit do I get from DL as it relates to the FF program than you? I actually get less benefit, as I am only GM.

However, I don't complain about my lack of benefits or being shafted by the program. I was in your position years and years ago when I was a PM (before the days of DM) doing 140+/year segments on the Shuttle from National port. Again, none of this will matter after years and years and years of intense travel.

And, if you focus on what's really relevant, you will eventually get to the place of buying F tickets for your travel...it's up to you.

Best of luck. And I sincerely mean that. Just refocus

Let me just get this out here - yes, I could have earned more miles for less money. It's not about earning miles when I choose a carrier.

Sez_Who

You keep bringing up this $59 nonsense but that is a non-issue. Also, DL's policy is not to automatically give elites an UG at the window and that never will be their policy.

I realize you have a difficult time seeing anything beyond what you alone want but DL is running an airline, not an automatic UG service for you. There are many other considerations like IROPS and purchasing F inside the window. If you think DL is going to bend over and sell out these pax just so you can get your EXPECTED automatic UG at the window, I would like to sell you a bridge.

And I'll give you another reason why your idea will fail because it just happened to me. I was out in LA but finished work early today so had a chance for SDC. In your system, I would be lucky to get a middle seat in the back.

Rightly so, DL did not open all F seats to all elites on the list so I got one. Yep, a PM didn't get an UG because of me showing up at the last minute. And the same thing could happen to you when you bump a GM.

If DL is going to take care of their elites, as you say, then this is also a part of it even though it means you don't get your expected -- no, make that DEMANDED -- UG at your precious window.

Lackey99

1-Yes...DL is running an airline...an airline they bankrupted a few years ago. 2-If you searched FT...I AM CLEARLY NOT ALONE...DL's watering down of their program is pissing off MANY people.
3-So...I or another PM or DM should miss their UG so you can get yours for a SDC? I have no problem sitting in Y for a SDC...why don't you? Middle seat last row...ok...just get me home three hours early. Be happy to head home early...you can wait for your original flight in you want to fly in FC.
4-So...I or another PM or DM should miss their UG to accomadate an IROP? I'm just happy when they get me on the flight...even if it's in Y and even if I had a confirmed UG for the missed flight. Heck...I missed a flight I had K'ed up with miles due to DL screw up (they couldn't figure out how to move the jetway to the plane...seriously). I was just happy I got on the last flight out in Y.
5-No problem selling F inside the window if elites are taken care of in their window.
6-$59 is real...they are advertising it when they show the fares/flights..."sit in First/BE for $59 more" How exactly is that a non-issue? If a kettle wants to buy a $350 H to get on the flight that's fine...but $59 for F when elites are within their UG window..that's a bad show of loyalty to the elites. Sorry you don't see it that way or that you don't care. I do...and many others do.

Perhaps the $59 thing will make sense to you when you see your SDC in F go to a kettle who would have bought the H ticket anyways but for $59 more got your SDC in F.

As a DM you deserve an UG before me...I've said that again and again...and I deserve one before a lower fare PM, GM, FO or a kettle buying one for $59 more when they buy their H ticket.

You are talking in circles. You seem to want DL to hold F seats so there is one there when you want to get home a few hours earlier but I'm wrong to expect they UG elites within their stated UG windows. No offense but you just don't make any sense.

Lackey99

Very well stated and I do appreciate and I do understand the lesson.

I elected to commit to DL because they treated me the best as a kettle...much better than all the rest and they treat me even better as a PM. I am not, and never hope to be a road warrior like some of my friends and my brother. I actually could fly less than I do now but I really like flying. I take the shuttle to NYC for weekends while my friends drive or take some fancy bus. I don't mind flying through ATL to get anywhere and I even take extra flights to make the most of DL promos to maximize mqm's. Anytime I fly more than 3 hours I always K up with miles just to be sure I'm in F.

I am a firm believer in loyalty...be it where I buy my vehicles, insurance, restaurants, contractors, banking, etc.... All I ask in return is to be treated the same way I treat them. Overall I really like DL's loyalty program. The PM desk answers my calls in seconds, recognizes me by name and only once has failed to take care of me. The ONLY issue I have is this upgrade window thing. Will they ever change it...probably not (but you never know). I promise I won't whine about it all the time (this one just got to me).

Ok...gotta hit the sack to get up at 5am for my flight.

thank you again

Robert Leach

I think Lackey99 is having a wee bit of trouble with either his analytical skills or his writing skills, or perhaps a mixture of both.

It would be nuts for the airline to tie up all the F seats at the upgrade window, because those who buy full fare F are the very same people who make decisions to travel at the last minute. You wax poetic about how you treat your customers . . . how would how would you feel if you were a full fare F Delta customer who could never buy a seat 1 or 2 or 3 days out because all the DMs and PMs were upgraded into every last F seat at the 5 day window? The very people who buy F are the ones who buy last minute, so you have to -- in the name of good customer service to them -- hold some seats for their purchase. Not to mention that those should be profitable sales for the airline.

Where you potentially fail in your writing is that what I think you are saying is that an elite on a discount coach fare should not be able to sit in F for a nominal upsell fee, like $59, if it displaces an elite who would have otherwise gotten that upgrade. In other words, don't sell a non-elite on a $150 one-way fare an F seat for $59 more, which is a concept that most of us would agree with. That is a far different story from selling the F seat for the full F fare and displacing the elite upgrader, which surely even you wouldn't have a problem with if you want your favorite airline to thrive.

s1c3r1a1b3b3l1e1

I agree with those of you who feel that Delta should sell their F seats as much as possible; however, I also largely agree with Lackey99 on this one. As elites, we recognize that we would have much better redemption options on AA/UA. We also recognize that we would have a much greater chance/easier time upgrading international flights on UA. However, we choose to stay with DL. For me it is largely because of the domestic upgrade program. And, I really think DL should be careful before they tinker too much with this unless they are throwing something else our way to keep us loyal. This is the one area where they still have the competitions' loyalty programs beat. I hope they don't give up this advantage.

Sez_Who

You keep talking about the importance of loyalty. Well, you flew all of something like 20K last year. I flew 10 times that much (actually 12) so who is really more loyal to the airline and which of us will DL want to take care of first?


If you believe this is happening, why not just pay the $59 yourself?


I didn't say you were wrong, only that it won't happen the way you would like. It's not just for SDC. There are many -- maybe DM's -- who book their flts in the last week inside the window.

You say DM's deserve an UG before you but if they book their flt after you, that means you should get the UG before them? Like I said, ain't gonna happen.

Lackey99

You are correct about my point about the F seat for $59 more. If the way your wrote it makes more sense to others than thank you for clarifying the issue. I have no problem with DL selling a F ticket for "full" price...just not for $59 over an H fare.

As to your last minute full fare F...ok...I can agree that they hold back a certain % of seats for full fare sales until 3,2,1, days before the flight. The case I was mentioning was 8 seats out of 16, three days out...without providing a PM with an UG. That simply does not sit well. Especially when you add the previously mentioned $59 issue. By the way...I just saw one for $53!!.

I don't begrudge DL making as much money as they can. I am simply concerned that they may be going overboard trying to monetize FC and that they would be better off foregoing the $59 (or $53) they are trying to get for a F seat and instead showing a little extra loyalty and giving that UG to an elite. Hopefully that is more clear and concise.

Lackey99

Yes...I didn't create the UG windows...I just feel DL should live up to them without restricting all the seats.

Sorry about the bolding...I screwed up the multi-quote thing.

Lackey99

Thank you...well stated. This is exactly my point.

I guess Univ. of MD didn't teach me to write goodly enough.

Sez_Who

Now you are saying all the seats, before you said half the seats...



Either way, DL will hold back seats for the many reasons mentioned. It is their airline, their rules. I don't have a problem with it and I fly a bit more than you. If you don't see this as loyalty, then seek another airline.

Oh wait, none of the others will give you an UG 5 days out. Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for.

meballard

Most of the other major US airlines (that have complimentary upgrades) give out upgrades 5 days (and on at least one more) before the flight to their top level members...

It's annoying that they publish a window, then hold so many seats to be upgraded at the gate. If they want to hold their seats until gate for upgrades, that's fine, but they shouldn't publish the policies as otherwise.