TATL Upgrades using Skymiles and SWUs on Air France/KLM
Jun 15, 2012, 2:51 am
#691
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,421
c_d you are an angel.
After a discussion with MSPEconomist about using SWUs on a 2-leg to Asia, I thought I'd check an upcoming itinerary to try to be helpful. I've done this before & not had the improperly coded problem. Lo-and-behold, my upcoming trip to BLR was exactly as you said above: confirmed seats but no PU505 after the Fare Code Basis. A call to the DM line confirmed the SWUs were entered improperly and the ticket was not reissued, though I did get the email with the Affaires seats. So, after molto complications owing to the fact that the SWUs I used have since expired, they're reissuing my ticket as I type. THANKYOU! One saving grace is that at least we get to deal with the nice DL people and not the icky AF people through all this. I smell JWD cert brewing if I get the reissued ticket. Ironically I had given a JWD to the agent who originally ticketed me as it seemed to have gone so unprecedentedly smoothly.
After a discussion with MSPEconomist about using SWUs on a 2-leg to Asia, I thought I'd check an upcoming itinerary to try to be helpful. I've done this before & not had the improperly coded problem. Lo-and-behold, my upcoming trip to BLR was exactly as you said above: confirmed seats but no PU505 after the Fare Code Basis. A call to the DM line confirmed the SWUs were entered improperly and the ticket was not reissued, though I did get the email with the Affaires seats. So, after molto complications owing to the fact that the SWUs I used have since expired, they're reissuing my ticket as I type. THANKYOU! One saving grace is that at least we get to deal with the nice DL people and not the icky AF people through all this. I smell JWD cert brewing if I get the reissued ticket. Ironically I had given a JWD to the agent who originally ticketed me as it seemed to have gone so unprecedentedly smoothly.
Jun 15, 2012, 6:28 am
#692
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: BER, SAT, AUS
Programs: Feels like FO (AA EXP)
Posts: 1,611
Its not you. It seems the availability has all but evaporated. Even the DL agents I speak with have recognized this. I can't find a single seat JFK-CDG or ATL-CDG or return from now through end of year. I have a RT in 2 weeks JFK-CDG-JFK. Shame on me for buying a Premium Economy 'W' fare. I suppose I can beg at the gate, but as a DL flyer, I doubt AF will have much pity on me. Plenty of seats open on the A380.
Hmm, what to do?! Take the chance an buy a bloody expensive W/M or suck it up and be in coach?BTW: DL booking engine is erratic again. I have had several B fares that were cheaper than M on the same routing/day/flights.
Jun 16, 2012, 1:57 pm
#693
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: ATL
Programs: DM, KM,
Posts: 173
thank-you! Lesson learned!
Since this question often comes up again and again: Yes, there is a way to find out whether the the SWU is correctly applied and coded. However, one needs to understand that it is not only looking on the "my trips" page, see the two indicators "O" and "confirmed" because they mean nothing as such. Scroll down on the page, locate your ticket number, click on it and a new window appears with more "technical information" about your trip.
If you see something looking the screenshot below, your SWU IS NOT properly coded (despite showing class "O" and "confirmed" on the trip summary). Remember, it is a trap because they even let you select BE seats at this point, although your ticket is actually still ECONOMY!
If you see something in the lines of below, your SWU IS properly coded:
Let me repeat just for the sake of completeness: What you see on the trip summary page is irrelevant and merely informative. Even though you see a BE seat, fare class "O", and the magic word "confirmed" next to your segments does not mean that your SWU is properly coded and applied and they may put you in Economy because this is what your ticket (as issued) is saying.
Only the info on your ticket receipt shows what's really going on.
BTW: Coupon Status "O-AF" does NOT mean fare class "O" on Air France but that the segment is operated by Air France and that its still Open (not checked-in, flown, or otherwise). Some people seem to mistake the coupon as confirmation that the SWU is in order (well the wording is slightly misleading as the SWU basically is a coupon of some kind).
If you see something looking the screenshot below, your SWU IS NOT properly coded (despite showing class "O" and "confirmed" on the trip summary). Remember, it is a trap because they even let you select BE seats at this point, although your ticket is actually still ECONOMY!
If you see something in the lines of below, your SWU IS properly coded:
Let me repeat just for the sake of completeness: What you see on the trip summary page is irrelevant and merely informative. Even though you see a BE seat, fare class "O", and the magic word "confirmed" next to your segments does not mean that your SWU is properly coded and applied and they may put you in Economy because this is what your ticket (as issued) is saying.
Only the info on your ticket receipt shows what's really going on.
BTW: Coupon Status "O-AF" does NOT mean fare class "O" on Air France but that the segment is operated by Air France and that its still Open (not checked-in, flown, or otherwise). Some people seem to mistake the coupon as confirmation that the SWU is in order (well the wording is slightly misleading as the SWU basically is a coupon of some kind).
Thank you c_d ^and FT in general for sound advice and information
Jun 16, 2012, 3:10 pm
#694
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC
Programs: DL DM, Hilton, Marriott & SPG Platinum & a whole lot of other programs...
Posts: 745
Oh boo! I was actually hoping for an operating error on my side and not an operator error Hmm, what to do?! Take the chance an buy a bloody expensive W/M or suck it up and be in coach?
BTW: DL booking engine is erratic again. I have had several B fares that were cheaper than M on the same routing/day/flights.
Hmm, what to do?! Take the chance an buy a bloody expensive W/M or suck it up and be in coach?BTW: DL booking engine is erratic again. I have had several B fares that were cheaper than M on the same routing/day/flights.
Jun 16, 2012, 11:35 pm
#695
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,421
Reviewed my reservations--once again--and found that my husband's reservation UGd with miles had been voided (by AF) because of the ticket not being reissued. I checked on this a couple of weeks ago and was assured that all was done properly. Only when I followed the explicit instructions by c_d to check details, did I find out that the ticket had not been properly reissued. However, my SWU res was done properly. An hour on the phone with a DM rep earned her a JWD cert.
Thank you c_d ^and FT in general for sound advice and information
Thank you c_d ^and FT in general for sound advice and information
1. Not reissuing the ticket
2. Making you spend 1 hour on the phone
Jun 26, 2012, 2:38 pm
#696
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,536
Since this question often comes up again and again: Yes, there is a way to find out whether the the SWU is correctly applied and coded. However, one needs to understand that it is not only looking on the "my trips" page, see the two indicators "O" and "confirmed" because they mean nothing as such. Scroll down on the page, locate your ticket number, click on it and a new window appears with more "technical information" about your trip.
If you see something looking the screenshot below, your SWU IS NOT properly coded (despite showing class "O" and "confirmed" on the trip summary). Remember, it is a trap because they even let you select BE seats at this point, although your ticket is actually still ECONOMY!
If you see something in the lines of below, your SWU IS properly coded:
Let me repeat just for the sake of completeness: What you see on the trip summary page is irrelevant and merely informative. Even though you see a BE seat, fare class "O", and the magic word "confirmed" next to your segments does not mean that your SWU is properly coded and applied and they may put you in Economy because this is what your ticket (as issued) is saying.
Only the info on your ticket receipt shows what's really going on.
BTW: Coupon Status "O-AF" does NOT mean fare class "O" on Air France but that the segment is operated by Air France and that its still Open (not checked-in, flown, or otherwise). Some people seem to mistake the coupon as confirmation that the SWU is in order (well the wording is slightly misleading as the SWU basically is a coupon of some kind).
If you see something looking the screenshot below, your SWU IS NOT properly coded (despite showing class "O" and "confirmed" on the trip summary). Remember, it is a trap because they even let you select BE seats at this point, although your ticket is actually still ECONOMY!
If you see something in the lines of below, your SWU IS properly coded:
Let me repeat just for the sake of completeness: What you see on the trip summary page is irrelevant and merely informative. Even though you see a BE seat, fare class "O", and the magic word "confirmed" next to your segments does not mean that your SWU is properly coded and applied and they may put you in Economy because this is what your ticket (as issued) is saying.
Only the info on your ticket receipt shows what's really going on.
BTW: Coupon Status "O-AF" does NOT mean fare class "O" on Air France but that the segment is operated by Air France and that its still Open (not checked-in, flown, or otherwise). Some people seem to mistake the coupon as confirmation that the SWU is in order (well the wording is slightly misleading as the SWU basically is a coupon of some kind).
Last edited by jamienbaker; Jun 26, 2012 at 2:39 pm Reason: text
Jun 26, 2012, 4:04 pm
#697
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: DL DM; SPG Gold
Posts: 1,733
bonus miles for delta W fare
So the delta chart indicates that Delta W fare, operated by AF, earn 50% bonus miles:
https://www.delta.com/skymiles/ways_...elta/index.jsp
However, AF premium voyageur fares (S,A, W), earn 25 % bonus miles:
http://skymilesoffers.delta.com/airline_partners.php#AF
My problem is as follow: I only buy delta W fares. I then upgrade them to O using either miles or PU503. When tickets are re-issued to process the upgrade, the flight numbers are changed to the AF equivalent. Therefore, when my miles are deposited, delta recognizes them as AF and only credits a bonus of 25%.
I emailed Kevin Pinto, who recommended I talked to Cyndi (he gave me her email address at delta). After a few exchanges, Cyndi states that "You receive mileage credit for the airline flown. Since the flight was operated by Air France , that is the bonus that you receive from the chart. "
That does not seem to make sense to me. Indeed, if there is a specific line on the delta chart for delta W fares operated by AF and that earn 50%, I think it clearly states that although being operated by AF, since it's a delta ticket, the 50% should apply. After a few back and forths, Cyndi stopped responding.
What is your experience? Were you credited with 25% or 50% bonus miles? Who do you think is right?
Thanks
https://www.delta.com/skymiles/ways_...elta/index.jsp
However, AF premium voyageur fares (S,A, W), earn 25 % bonus miles:
http://skymilesoffers.delta.com/airline_partners.php#AF
My problem is as follow: I only buy delta W fares. I then upgrade them to O using either miles or PU503. When tickets are re-issued to process the upgrade, the flight numbers are changed to the AF equivalent. Therefore, when my miles are deposited, delta recognizes them as AF and only credits a bonus of 25%.
I emailed Kevin Pinto, who recommended I talked to Cyndi (he gave me her email address at delta). After a few exchanges, Cyndi states that "You receive mileage credit for the airline flown. Since the flight was operated by Air France , that is the bonus that you receive from the chart. "
That does not seem to make sense to me. Indeed, if there is a specific line on the delta chart for delta W fares operated by AF and that earn 50%, I think it clearly states that although being operated by AF, since it's a delta ticket, the 50% should apply. After a few back and forths, Cyndi stopped responding.
What is your experience? Were you credited with 25% or 50% bonus miles? Who do you think is right?
Thanks
Jun 26, 2012, 4:25 pm
#698
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
25%. Ticket stock matters not, just the flight number. If you fly a DL W fare on a DL-coded flight, you'll get 50%, but if it's an AF flight number, the AF chart for SkyMiles earning applies.
Jun 26, 2012, 4:38 pm
#699
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC
Programs: DL DM, Hilton, Marriott & SPG Platinum & a whole lot of other programs...
Posts: 745
So the delta chart indicates that Delta W fare, operated by AF, earn 50% bonus miles:
https://www.delta.com/skymiles/ways_...elta/index.jsp
However, AF premium voyageur fares (S,A, W), earn 25 % bonus miles:
http://skymilesoffers.delta.com/airline_partners.php#AF
My problem is as follow: I only buy delta W fares. I then upgrade them to O using either miles or PU503. When tickets are re-issued to process the upgrade, the flight numbers are changed to the AF equivalent. Therefore, when my miles are deposited, delta recognizes them as AF and only credits a bonus of 25%.
I emailed Kevin Pinto, who recommended I talked to Cyndi (he gave me her email address at delta). After a few exchanges, Cyndi states that "You receive mileage credit for the airline flown. Since the flight was operated by Air France , that is the bonus that you receive from the chart. "
That does not seem to make sense to me. Indeed, if there is a specific line on the delta chart for delta W fares operated by AF and that earn 50%, I think it clearly states that although being operated by AF, since it's a delta ticket, the 50% should apply. After a few back and forths, Cyndi stopped responding.
What is your experience? Were you credited with 25% or 50% bonus miles? Who do you think is right?
Thanks
https://www.delta.com/skymiles/ways_...elta/index.jsp
However, AF premium voyageur fares (S,A, W), earn 25 % bonus miles:
http://skymilesoffers.delta.com/airline_partners.php#AF
My problem is as follow: I only buy delta W fares. I then upgrade them to O using either miles or PU503. When tickets are re-issued to process the upgrade, the flight numbers are changed to the AF equivalent. Therefore, when my miles are deposited, delta recognizes them as AF and only credits a bonus of 25%.
I emailed Kevin Pinto, who recommended I talked to Cyndi (he gave me her email address at delta). After a few exchanges, Cyndi states that "You receive mileage credit for the airline flown. Since the flight was operated by Air France , that is the bonus that you receive from the chart. "
That does not seem to make sense to me. Indeed, if there is a specific line on the delta chart for delta W fares operated by AF and that earn 50%, I think it clearly states that although being operated by AF, since it's a delta ticket, the 50% should apply. After a few back and forths, Cyndi stopped responding.
What is your experience? Were you credited with 25% or 50% bonus miles? Who do you think is right?
Thanks
Jun 26, 2012, 5:26 pm
#700
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
Please do not push this issue. The most likely occurrence is that the loophole of changing the flight number will be closed and SWU usefulness will decline.
Jun 26, 2012, 5:34 pm
#701
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Dia, Amex Plat
Posts: 32,037
I have asked for the remaining 25% MQMs before and they were credited to my account w/o any issues. Once it's changed from DL to AF flight numbers the AF rules technically apply, but Delta will credit the difference.
Jun 26, 2012, 6:06 pm
#702
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Posts: 100,403
This would seem to be consistent with the principle that you earn miles based on the fare class purchased, which was DL W.
Jun 27, 2012, 7:37 am
#703
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: DL DM; SPG Gold
Posts: 1,733
So I has sent an email to delta to claim the remaining 25% bonus miles (I have 5th round trip west coast to CDG were 25% bonus mile instead of 50% were applied). Delta called me a few hours after I submitted the email to directly talk to me, and also sent an email detailing our conversation afterward. Here is the bottom line of their response:
"As I mentioned, Systemwide Upgrades can only be used when traveling on Air
France marketed and operated flights. Since your ticket was purchased
on a Delta marketed flight, our agents had to change your ticket. We
are glad to see that they did this at no charge to you, and you were
able to enjoy the benefit of upgrading. Unfortunately, with that change
the class bonus amount changed to 25% for the W fare class. "
So that's fine by me. I'am ok giving up 25% bonus miles in exchange of the upgrade. Curious why other users have indeed been credited the 50% though.
"As I mentioned, Systemwide Upgrades can only be used when traveling on Air
France marketed and operated flights. Since your ticket was purchased
on a Delta marketed flight, our agents had to change your ticket. We
are glad to see that they did this at no charge to you, and you were
able to enjoy the benefit of upgrading. Unfortunately, with that change
the class bonus amount changed to 25% for the W fare class. "
So that's fine by me. I'am ok giving up 25% bonus miles in exchange of the upgrade. Curious why other users have indeed been credited the 50% though.
Jun 27, 2012, 7:45 am
#704
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: BER, SAT, AUS
Programs: Feels like FO (AA EXP)
Posts: 1,611
My reservation was correctly coded at first, precisely as you show. But I made a change to a Delta segment today, and the PU503 reference has now dropped off the AF-operated segments. Is this cause for concern? Or is that normal? Perhaps it takes a few hours for the re-ticketing to reconcile with AF? Or should I panic?
In my experience, they only remembered to reissue the new ticket including the originally applied SWU once. That was done by the experts of the international reissue desk and it was a manual process due to the BER problems. For an ordinary schedule change, they always forgot to reapply the SWU and reissue the ticket, which simply means: I was back in coach again and, also notable, the SWU was simply gone.
Jun 27, 2012, 8:04 am
#705
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,536
My reservation was correctly coded at first, precisely as you show. But I made a change to a Delta segment today, and the PU503 reference has now dropped off the AF-operated segments. Is this cause for concern? Or is that normal? Perhaps it takes a few hours for the re-ticketing to reconcile with AF? Or should I panic?