AMEX Delta Companion certificate Consolidated Thread
Oct 5, 2018, 8:23 am
#2281
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,205
So I got this trip booked today. It took hours but worked out in the end. I wanted to share the process for anyone else looking to do this.
To recap, I was able to find a Y class RT fare on CI for JFK-AKL (via TPE-BNE) for $2649.35 USD. I first called DL. Their instructions for using SkyTeam Mileage upgrade on CI flights (or any SkyTeam Upgrade) is to book the flights directly with Delta. They will then immediately process the upgrade to Business and reissue the ticket. This was surprising to me because I wansn't sure how DL could issue a ticket using a CI fare. (I had already looked extensively on EF, there were no Delta fares that had CI routings.) I kept saying that it only made sense that I book the Y ticket directly with CI and then call Delta back (as has been mentioned in other posts here). Every DL agent was SURE this would not work because their system can "only" access AF and KL pnrs. After almost 2 hours on the phone (the agent was great, she was slowly starting to side with my logic when she realized there were no DL fares with CI routings and became persistent with various other support desks). She finally found some small department called "Skyteam Upgrades" and spoke with someone there that verified the process 1) Book with CI directly, needs to be CI ticket stock, and must be Y segments, no code shares, and Y fare basis. 2) Call DL back. DL will book I class (she checked my flights for I class first, it was all available, even though O (award space) was not. 3) She said most DL agent's have no clue about Skyteam Mileage Upgrade and claim its not possible. She said to tell agent when I call back just to contact the Skyteam Mileage Upgrade Dept at internal extension 300-8743, that only they can pull the CI ticket, create a DL ghost PNR and reissue into Business.
Armed with this info, I called CI in LAX. Side note...currently the china-airlines.com website does not offer any full Y fares. It only offers fulll PE fares (W) which are not eligible for Skyteam Upgrade.
Called CI and within about 20 mins had the exact itinerary and fare I found on EF and fared in ITA Matrix in Y class. Got CI PNR and CI Ticket No.
Called Delta back (Elite line), explained very concisely to the agent my last few hours and quoted the internal extension number for the Skyteam Upgrades dept. She very politely stated that upgrading CI flights was not possible and that there was no such department or extension. I also politely asked her to please attempt the extension. She came back on about 3 mins later and stated that she would be transferring me to the Upgrade agent, that this was a "new process" she was not aware of.
I relayed this to the lady at Skyteam Upgrades and she said its nothing new and no body knows how to contact them. She said that their number is very clearly listed in all internal documentation in how to process a Skyteam Upgrade, but agents get the terms "Skyteam Upgrade" and "Skymiles Upgrade" confused or don't search for the info correctly.
She had me upgraded and reissued in under 5 minutes.
As soon as she completed the upgrade, a DL PNR immediately appeared in "My Trips" in delta.com. The trip showed all of the CI segments, showed CI fare info, but when reissued was reissued with 006 ticket number. She said she did get a confirmed HK response from CI/amadeus that the I class segments were validated. I'm crossing my fingers she was right. (I have high hopes, when I booked the Y ticket with CI, the CI agent also confirmed she could see I class open for all of my flights.
I then called CI back to reserve seats. On their end, they only saw the original 279 ticket in Y and the Y segments, but said when other airlines make changes on shared control PNRs, it can take overnight until it updates. I logged into Amadeus checkmytrip and saw same thing...still the original ticket. I will check again in the morning.
Followup notes:
1) EF cannot pull I class for CI. (which is their Business class upgrade inventory). I assumed that I class would mirror O class (award Business) which EF does report. In talking to both DL and CI, I found many flights that had O class sold out, still had I class available.
2) CI has a 48 hour risk free cancellation policy for flight departing USA...BUT ONLY IF BOOKED on their website. Since I booked directly with their ticket office, there was no free cancellation (since they will hold for 7 days before ticketing subject to fare change if you desire).
3) I mentioned not being able to book a full Y fare on CI's website. CI said this was odd and they would open a ticket with their IT/Rev Mgmt teams.
4) All of CI's full Y fares are refundable but have a $100 USD fee to refund. I found this very strange for a full Y fare. I mentioned this to the CI agent, she said they moved to this fee for full fares a few years ago.
After all of this I'm pretty happy. Since these are CI flights in Y, I will get about 27,000 MQMs for next year. And over 60 hours of CI Business class flying in the A350 for $2650 + 60k (30k x 2) miles seems like a deal.
Lastly, after I was all done, I realized I booked AKL-TPE a day early by accident. Yep. I'm a looser. I have no idea how fixing that will be, but its too late to call back tonight. I guess it gives us another data point I can report back here!
Thansk to @RealHJ for all of the help in previous posts!
To recap, I was able to find a Y class RT fare on CI for JFK-AKL (via TPE-BNE) for $2649.35 USD. I first called DL. Their instructions for using SkyTeam Mileage upgrade on CI flights (or any SkyTeam Upgrade) is to book the flights directly with Delta. They will then immediately process the upgrade to Business and reissue the ticket. This was surprising to me because I wansn't sure how DL could issue a ticket using a CI fare. (I had already looked extensively on EF, there were no Delta fares that had CI routings.) I kept saying that it only made sense that I book the Y ticket directly with CI and then call Delta back (as has been mentioned in other posts here). Every DL agent was SURE this would not work because their system can "only" access AF and KL pnrs. After almost 2 hours on the phone (the agent was great, she was slowly starting to side with my logic when she realized there were no DL fares with CI routings and became persistent with various other support desks). She finally found some small department called "Skyteam Upgrades" and spoke with someone there that verified the process 1) Book with CI directly, needs to be CI ticket stock, and must be Y segments, no code shares, and Y fare basis. 2) Call DL back. DL will book I class (she checked my flights for I class first, it was all available, even though O (award space) was not. 3) She said most DL agent's have no clue about Skyteam Mileage Upgrade and claim its not possible. She said to tell agent when I call back just to contact the Skyteam Mileage Upgrade Dept at internal extension 300-8743, that only they can pull the CI ticket, create a DL ghost PNR and reissue into Business.
Armed with this info, I called CI in LAX. Side note...currently the china-airlines.com website does not offer any full Y fares. It only offers fulll PE fares (W) which are not eligible for Skyteam Upgrade.
Called CI and within about 20 mins had the exact itinerary and fare I found on EF and fared in ITA Matrix in Y class. Got CI PNR and CI Ticket No.
Called Delta back (Elite line), explained very concisely to the agent my last few hours and quoted the internal extension number for the Skyteam Upgrades dept. She very politely stated that upgrading CI flights was not possible and that there was no such department or extension. I also politely asked her to please attempt the extension. She came back on about 3 mins later and stated that she would be transferring me to the Upgrade agent, that this was a "new process" she was not aware of.
I relayed this to the lady at Skyteam Upgrades and she said its nothing new and no body knows how to contact them. She said that their number is very clearly listed in all internal documentation in how to process a Skyteam Upgrade, but agents get the terms "Skyteam Upgrade" and "Skymiles Upgrade" confused or don't search for the info correctly.
She had me upgraded and reissued in under 5 minutes.
As soon as she completed the upgrade, a DL PNR immediately appeared in "My Trips" in delta.com. The trip showed all of the CI segments, showed CI fare info, but when reissued was reissued with 006 ticket number. She said she did get a confirmed HK response from CI/amadeus that the I class segments were validated. I'm crossing my fingers she was right. (I have high hopes, when I booked the Y ticket with CI, the CI agent also confirmed she could see I class open for all of my flights.
I then called CI back to reserve seats. On their end, they only saw the original 279 ticket in Y and the Y segments, but said when other airlines make changes on shared control PNRs, it can take overnight until it updates. I logged into Amadeus checkmytrip and saw same thing...still the original ticket. I will check again in the morning.
Followup notes:
1) EF cannot pull I class for CI. (which is their Business class upgrade inventory). I assumed that I class would mirror O class (award Business) which EF does report. In talking to both DL and CI, I found many flights that had O class sold out, still had I class available.
2) CI has a 48 hour risk free cancellation policy for flight departing USA...BUT ONLY IF BOOKED on their website. Since I booked directly with their ticket office, there was no free cancellation (since they will hold for 7 days before ticketing subject to fare change if you desire).
3) I mentioned not being able to book a full Y fare on CI's website. CI said this was odd and they would open a ticket with their IT/Rev Mgmt teams.
4) All of CI's full Y fares are refundable but have a $100 USD fee to refund. I found this very strange for a full Y fare. I mentioned this to the CI agent, she said they moved to this fee for full fares a few years ago.
After all of this I'm pretty happy. Since these are CI flights in Y, I will get about 27,000 MQMs for next year. And over 60 hours of CI Business class flying in the A350 for $2650 + 60k (30k x 2) miles seems like a deal.
Lastly, after I was all done, I realized I booked AKL-TPE a day early by accident. Yep. I'm a looser. I have no idea how fixing that will be, but its too late to call back tonight. I guess it gives us another data point I can report back here!
Thansk to @RealHJ for all of the help in previous posts!
Again thanks, and congrats!
Oct 8, 2018, 11:25 am
#2282
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WAS
Programs: :rolleyes:, DL DM, Mlife Plat, Caesars Diam, Marriott Tit, UA Gold, Hyatt Glob, invol FT beta tester
Posts: 18,926
Posting to report another recent data point of successful companion cert booking (it wasn't a great redemption, but it was going to expire anyway and fortunately still covers the value of the AF), and using a non-DL AMEX card.
Oct 8, 2018, 12:25 pm
#2283
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: DL Scattered Smothered Covered Medallion, Some hotel & car stuff, Kroger Plus Card
Posts: 10,745
I think I'm going to close my DL Business Plat Amex at the next anniversary. We haven't had any problems using two certs/year (also have a personal DL Reserve), but going forward I could see us having to make up a reason to go somewhere. Plus I have way too many RDM and would rather just burn those for the short trips where were using the Plat cert.
Aside from credit history, would there be any good reason to downgrade to a fee-free DL Options (is that even a thing for small biz Amex?) vs. just closing the account? With Amex removing all the OPEN discounts recently, this card doesn't really hold any remaining value outside of the cert for me - I can put my biz expenses on regular cards and just separate them out in Quicken or something.
Aside from credit history, would there be any good reason to downgrade to a fee-free DL Options (is that even a thing for small biz Amex?) vs. just closing the account? With Amex removing all the OPEN discounts recently, this card doesn't really hold any remaining value outside of the cert for me - I can put my biz expenses on regular cards and just separate them out in Quicken or something.
Oct 8, 2018, 12:57 pm
#2284
Join Date: Nov 2011
Programs: Delta Platinum; Marriott Platinum; Hertz PC
Posts: 39
If you check the T&C you can find the specific fare classes that are covered by the cert. You can then try a normal booking and see if those fare classes are available for the dates/times you want.
From the T&C, "Seats are limited in First-Class to A, I class of service, in Delta Comfort+ to W class of service, and in Main Cabin to L, U, T, X, V class of service."
If you find that they are available, probably worth a call to customer service. In any event, I think they only way to book them online is to start at the certificate page and use that pathway (as others have mentioned).
From the T&C, "Seats are limited in First-Class to A, I class of service, in Delta Comfort+ to W class of service, and in Main Cabin to L, U, T, X, V class of service."
If you find that they are available, probably worth a call to customer service. In any event, I think they only way to book them online is to start at the certificate page and use that pathway (as others have mentioned).
Oct 8, 2018, 8:56 pm
#2285
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC/ EWR/ PHL
Programs: UA Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 2,210
Yes. It is a bit all over the place and hard to understand. I use both the VS site, DL's website and the phone if I really need a particular flight. I've found that sometimes when you call they see different inventory. Also sometimes online is literally bookable (I am a Diamond so can cancel) but calling says it is not there. Also VS flights don't seem to show most times when connecting to another DL partner example - VS JFK-LHR and 9W LHR-BOM. You need to call and force them to combine (they usually will).
Oct 12, 2018, 1:02 pm
#2286
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 84
Haven't been able to find a definitive answer so I am hoping someone has a similar experience on "extending" the expiration date of the companion cert. I have a cert that expires on 11/30/2018 but I want to book it for a flight next January. The cert booking page online won't let me select flights in or out beyond 11/30/2018.
Is it possible to book something like 11/29-11/30 roundtrip with the cert and immediately do a change flight to January?
Thanks everyone.
Is it possible to book something like 11/29-11/30 roundtrip with the cert and immediately do a change flight to January?
Thanks everyone.
Oct 12, 2018, 4:20 pm
#2288
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: DL Scattered Smothered Covered Medallion, Some hotel & car stuff, Kroger Plus Card
Posts: 10,745
Haven't been able to find a definitive answer so I am hoping someone has a similar experience on "extending" the expiration date of the companion cert. I have a cert that expires on 11/30/2018 but I want to book it for a flight next January. The cert booking page online won't let me select flights in or out beyond 11/30/2018.
Is it possible to book something like 11/29-11/30 roundtrip with the cert and immediately do a change flight to January?
Thanks everyone.
Is it possible to book something like 11/29-11/30 roundtrip with the cert and immediately do a change flight to January?
Thanks everyone.
Oct 12, 2018, 4:21 pm
#2289
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: HSV
Programs: Bellevue Lifetime Premiere Mega Elite Supreme
Posts: 1,509
I think I'm going to close my DL Business Plat Amex at the next anniversary. We haven't had any problems using two certs/year (also have a personal DL Reserve), but going forward I could see us having to make up a reason to go somewhere. Plus I have way too many RDM and would rather just burn those for the short trips where were using the Plat cert.
Aside from credit history, would there be any good reason to downgrade to a fee-free DL Options (is that even a thing for small biz Amex?) vs. just closing the account? With Amex removing all the OPEN discounts recently, this card doesn't really hold any remaining value outside of the cert for me - I can put my biz expenses on regular cards and just separate them out in Quicken or something.
Aside from credit history, would there be any good reason to downgrade to a fee-free DL Options (is that even a thing for small biz Amex?) vs. just closing the account? With Amex removing all the OPEN discounts recently, this card doesn't really hold any remaining value outside of the cert for me - I can put my biz expenses on regular cards and just separate them out in Quicken or something.
Oct 12, 2018, 4:36 pm
#2290
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: DL Scattered Smothered Covered Medallion, Some hotel & car stuff, Kroger Plus Card
Posts: 10,745
If you don’t hit the MQM thresholds on both cards, aside from the companion cert there’s little else of tangible benefit that you don’t already get from the AXR. I’d ditch it and put the fee toward an AXR card for Mrs Lee so she can have SC access without needing you to sponsor her.
I would probably just save the fee altogether. Mrs. Lee already has a supplemental unbranded AX Plat, and I'm thinking of dropping that as well and just using PP lounges or forking over the $29 when "needed." Domestic lounge access isn't as meaningful to us now as it once was.
Oct 12, 2018, 5:05 pm
#2291
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
It doesn't have to a DL AMEX card, it can be ANY AMEX card.
Oct 12, 2018, 5:30 pm
#2292
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WAS
Programs: :rolleyes:, DL DM, Mlife Plat, Caesars Diam, Marriott Tit, UA Gold, Hyatt Glob, invol FT beta tester
Posts: 18,926
isn't that exactly what I said?
Oct 12, 2018, 6:04 pm
#2294
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 84
I think I can avoid the $200x2 change fee if I rebook within 24 hours? The worst case would just be canceling within 24 hours and lose the cert.
That being said I have an idea. Since this cert can be transferred. Does anyone want to trade bookings? I can book something for you before 11/30 but I'd need a RT in January.
That being said I have an idea. Since this cert can be transferred. Does anyone want to trade bookings? I can book something for you before 11/30 but I'd need a RT in January.
Oct 12, 2018, 8:00 pm
#2295
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: DL Scattered Smothered Covered Medallion, Some hotel & car stuff, Kroger Plus Card
Posts: 10,745
But yes, you can use your cert to book a ticket for another pair of people.