Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles
Reload this Page >

DL's weak position in US-Canada cross-border

DL's weak position in US-Canada cross-border

Old Oct 1, 10, 12:42 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 65
Thumbs down DL's weak position in US-Canada cross-border

NW was the #1 option for US-Canada cross-border and to a smaller extent for Canada-South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, due to NW's own flights and large number of codeshare flights with CO/DL/AS (and at the European end KLM)

Now, CO married UAL, with their codeshare with Air Canada, UA/AC is by far the largest player.

In many Canadian cities, after CO divorced DL, DL does not have sufficient presence.

Beef up your Canadian service, DL !!!!
jing_canada is offline  
Old Oct 1, 10, 1:15 pm
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: I don't know
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, UA Premier
Posts: 14,401
Delta has a more than sufficient presence.

Every city that the new UA/CO flies to (with the exception of St. John's and Mont Tremblant), Delta flies there as well (Delta has service to Charlottetown as well, which UA/CO does not serve). In addtion, Delta has access to many British Columbia destinations on Alaska Airlines/Horizon Air codeshares.

UA/CO might have more flights, as well as codeshares on Air Canada to support it, but Delta is not in a bad position. Their transborder position is still much stronger than that of American, US Airways, WestJet, Porter and others.
mersk862 is offline  
Old Oct 1, 10, 1:51 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Likely being followed...
Programs: DYKWIA Extraordinaire. TrollSlayer Mega Diamond. [insert esoteric sounding status level(s) here]
Posts: 5,240
Originally Posted by jing_canada View Post
NW was the #1 option for US-Canada cross-border

Now, CO married UAL, with their codeshare with Air Canada, UA/AC is by far the largest player.
Not sure how you came to the first conclusion. Was it pax carried? daily flights? I would always think that AC was the largest transborder carrier based on pax & flights.

As for the 2nd statement, UA/AC are "alliance partners" not the same company.

I would like mainline AC to return to YUL.
Vuelos is offline  
Old Oct 1, 10, 2:14 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York City
Programs: SkyMiles PM, Hyatt Gold Passport Platinum
Posts: 800
And isn't Delta soon to start code sharing with WestJet?
samonyc is offline  
Old Oct 1, 10, 2:23 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Winnipeg, MB Canada
Posts: 46
Although there are a number of flights, Delta is slowly falling off in the service levels offered. For example, in Winnipeg, we used to have 3 of 5 outbound flights to Minneapolis with a first class cabin. As of Labor Day, we now are exclusively serviced by CRJ-200's with no first class.

I am not expecting all flights to have a First Class, but come on, not even one flight a day?

Brian
bkomar is offline  
Old Oct 1, 10, 2:36 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Likely being followed...
Programs: DYKWIA Extraordinaire. TrollSlayer Mega Diamond. [insert esoteric sounding status level(s) here]
Posts: 5,240
Originally Posted by bkomar View Post
Although there are a number of flights, Delta is slowly falling off in the service levels offered. For example, in Winnipeg, we used to have 3 of 5 outbound flights to Minneapolis with a first class cabin. As of Labor Day, we now are exclusively serviced by CRJ-200's with no first class.

I am not expecting all flights to have a First Class, but come on, not even one flight a day?

Brian
Maybe F wasn't selling?

Though if I was in your position I'd be pissed too. I had that happen at my home station (we were down to 1 of the 4-6 flights per day with F) and so I moved to another airport.
Vuelos is offline  
Old Oct 1, 10, 3:30 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
Programs: AS, DL, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 2,512
YYC-SLC (falls just short of minimum duration to have an aircraft with F - so it's on the dreaded CRJ-200s), we had 5 daily flights at one point, down to just one or two a day now depending on day of week.

YYC-MSP, used to be on A320's, 3 x daily. Now there's still 3 flights, but two of them are CRJs, the other an A319 (complete with reduction in F cabin seating).

Even adding in Horizon Air's 2 flights a day to SEA on a Q400, compared to UA with up to 12 flights a day, DL and AS/QX are still way behind due to all the service cuts.

I do agree with the OP that far from further capitalising on NW's former position as a leader in transborder service, the new DL/NW has made cut backs to capacity in many (most?) markets.

The DC9s that used to service markets like Saskatoon, Winnipeg and Regina are being replaced by smaller regional jets, in some cases one-class CRJ200s.

YYC-ATL would be a great route addition, particularly in the summer with the cruise/tourist traffic supplementing the strong business traffic.

I am hoping that the focus will return if the deal with WS goes ahead. WS and WN plans have been quite firmly shelved, and WS has indicated a strong preference for an alliance with DL. The "danger" (at least for us Medallions) is that WS would take over almost all the transborder flying into DL hubs and allow DL to continue on from there. If that happened, I'd probably switch all my flying to *A instead.
SamuelS is offline  
Old Oct 1, 10, 5:40 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Programs: DL DM, SPG Plat
Posts: 696
My current travel plans take me to yyc often, and dl's service there doesn't seem strong enough for the demand. I've found days where allflught are completely oversold even 5 days out on Monday/Friday.

Haven't looked into the westjet situation; if that causes a further reduction in service on dl metal, it might be enough to tip me away from dl.

Otoh, I actually enjoyed my trip that way - had a great seatmate and free local/craft beer, and every seat is in the first class
stevekstevek is offline  
Old Oct 1, 10, 7:02 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: DL PM, SPG Plat
Posts: 3,078
I would like to see DL serve YYT some time. I went there with CO and it made for a great trip. IIRC, they have enough traffic to send a 737 up there from EWR. It would be nice to see DL get some of that market.
SJC ORD LDR is online now  
Old Oct 1, 10, 7:07 pm
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: I don't know
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, UA Premier
Posts: 14,401
Originally Posted by SamuelS View Post

YYC-ATL would be a great route addition, particularly in the summer with the cruise/tourist traffic supplementing the strong business traffic.
YYC-ATL was tried in Summer 2008 with a 737-800. It did not return for the following summer (likely due to the abilty to flow that traffic over Minneapolis instead).
mersk862 is offline  
Old Oct 1, 10, 9:30 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,192
Originally Posted by jing_canada View Post
In many Canadian cities, after CO divorced DL, DL does not have sufficient presence.
Other than the aforementioned YYT (lovely in summer) and Moncton, what Canadian destinations did DL/NW lose when CO left SkyTeam?
3Cforme is offline  
Old Oct 1, 10, 11:22 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
Programs: AS, DL, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 2,512
Originally Posted by mersk862 View Post
YYC-ATL was tried in Summer 2008 with a 737-800. It did not return for the following summer (likely due to the abilty to flow that traffic over Minneapolis instead).
I believe that was YVR-ATL?

If there was indeed a YYC-ATL route, it must have not been daily as I certainly never saw it travelling several times that summer, and YYC is one of my main home airports.

There was a YYC-DTW flight for a while, but I haven't seen YYC-ATL for years (since the old YEG-YYC-ATL double stop from pre-9/11 days).
SamuelS is offline  
Old Oct 1, 10, 11:31 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
Programs: AS, DL, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 2,512
Originally Posted by stevekstevek View Post
My current travel plans take me to yyc often, and dl's service there doesn't seem strong enough for the demand. I've found days where allflught are completely oversold even 5 days out on Monday/Friday.
Agreed. Sunday nights into YYC are also packed, and I have yet to clear an F upgrade as a GM on a Sunday night except when it's over a holiday.
SamuelS is offline  
Old Oct 2, 10, 2:25 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,650
My only real complaint is how DL has downgraded absolutely everything on DTW-YYZ/YUL to CRJ200s. A lot of these used to be mainline on NW.

I book anything else to avoid those - it is the only aircraft type that I refuse to fly unless there is no choice. I understand some of the smaller cities, but YYZ/YUL? Plenty of other options out there.
HeadInTheClouds is offline  
Old Oct 2, 10, 2:41 pm
  #15  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: I don't know
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, UA Premier
Posts: 14,401
Originally Posted by SamuelS View Post
I believe that was YVR-ATL?

If there was indeed a YYC-ATL route, it must have not been daily as I certainly never saw it travelling several times that summer, and YYC is one of my main home airports.

There was a YYC-DTW flight for a while, but I haven't seen YYC-ATL for years (since the old YEG-YYC-ATL double stop from pre-9/11 days).
YVR-ATL has been a seasonal route on the 757-200s for several summers now. I saw that flight leaving one morning in August (left Atlanta around 1000a).

YYC-ATL was done for one summer with the 737-800; I believe it operated 4x/wk. Delta was also doing several nonstop flights to that geographic area that summer, with I believe Boise, Billings and Kalispell all having less-than-daily 737-800 service out of Atlanta (and I believe Spokane was announced, but not launched).
mersk862 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: