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Phantom Upgrade Program
This just came up in another thread, but it'll get lost there. I think it's a significant issue, so I'm starting this new thread. I hope PMNW fliers can tell us about their actual experience, and that by calling attention to this we can get DL to consider re-instituting the program. Personally I feel it will benefit both customers and the airline, and be a significant step towards "best in class"
Originally Posted by jimrpa
(Post 14598606)
I saw a reference to "phantom upgrades" and I've seen prior references to them. I know they were some kind of Northwest program, but exactly what were they? Were they essentially op-ups for elites? Were they only used in oversells? Were they just "Gee, the business class cabin has a few open seats, and Mr. JimRPA is standing here in front of me, so I'll just hand him a business class boarding pass and make his day because I'm in a happy mood" thing?
Originally Posted by Gargoyle
(Post 14598910)
As was explained to us at the RTW/DO last year, the first rule of phantom upgrades is you don't talk about phantom upgrades. The second rule of the phantom upgrade program is, you DO NOT talk about phantom upgrades ...
;) Basically, if there were empty seats up front on int'l flights, they'd sometimes take the top 3 or 5 medallions and give them gate upgrades. It wasn't a published benefit, and wasn't anything you could ever count on, but was a really nice bonus thank-you gift for those medallions. Many of us feel that would go a long way towards making us happy, without the downside that terrifies revenue management, i.e. cannibalizing premium sales.
Originally Posted by jimrpa
(Post 14599396)
Thanks! So, on Norhwest, it really did pay to be nice to the GA in the hope that you would get one of these upgrades? Were there any criteria that enhanced your chances? Fare class? Checking time? Specific brand of chocolate for the GA? ;)
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One can only dream!
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Don't see any reason why they can't. It's probably that they don't want to do such a thing. I personally don't see any harm in putting a few medallions up front given there is space.
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Originally Posted by Gargoyle
(Post 14599423)
This just came up in another thread, but it'll get lost there. I think it's a significant issue, so I'm starting this new thread. I hope PMNW fliers can tell us about their actual experience, and that by calling attention to this we can get DL to consider re-instituting the program. Personally I feel it will benefit both customers and the airline, and be a significant step towards "best in class"
If seats are available, you may provide upgrades to (in order) flyer A, flyer B, flyer C, Flyer D, Flyer E. These passengers (max. 5) were ordered based on some combination of elite status, annual/lifetime spend, and fare class. This may be a simplified version, but I think it covers the bases. It was never expected (even if WBC wasn't full, since it was limited to a max of 5 pax per flight). |
Your "phantom" upgrade is to the middle seat on a 767 in the last row of Y.
THat's where they keep passengers who are "valuable" like you. |
<<<<<<If seats are available, you may provide upgrades to (in order) flyer A, flyer B, flyer C, Flyer D, Flyer E. These passengers (max. 5) were ordered based on some combination of elite status, annual/lifetime spend, and fare class.
I did three overseas trips within the period (March, June, December) and got the phantom upgrades all three times. Plat, and always on lowest possible fare. NWA ff flyer since the '80's. but elite only maybe in the last 5 or 6 years (silver to gold to plat; all personally paid leisure travel at lowest possible fare). It felt like a very fond farewell from an airline that valued people first. |
To clarify a bit, on TATL flights it was only eastbound -- i.e. where there was NW staff.
I had 3 TALT flights during that time. One was DTW-DUS on the 757 and there weren't that many WBC seats so it may not have been included in the program. The other two trips were DTW-FRA and MEM-AMS on 333's and I got it on the latter. It is possible I could have been on the list on the DTW-FRA but the inbound flight was late and they basically closed the door behind me so if I was on the list I'm sure they gave it to somebody else. If DL just called up to 5 people up to the podium (when empty BE seats) and asked "Would you like to use a SWU?" it'd go a long way towards making people happy. I fly anywhere from 3-5 TATL trips a year on my own dime and all I'd really like is to sit in BE on one leg a year. With NW once a year I'd buy a B fare ($1000-1500 from LAX) and upgrade with miles and I was a happy camper. |
NW Phantom Upgrade program worked like this:
Flight Eligibility: US to Europe, US to Asia, Asia to US, within Asia. The reason Europe to the US didn't work is because all of the European stations are managed by KL or third party staff (and I believe they ran on a completely different mainframe. I might be wrong about this fact). Elite Eligibility: Platinum and Gold Elite only. How it worked: based on seat availability up to five elites as defined above would be upgraded to the WBC cabin at the gate, usually 15 minutes before boarding. NW wasn't forthcoming with the exact criteria for selecting the five lucky flyers but it was generally believed to be Plat first, Gold second. Then within the elite ranks it was based on LTV (long term value) to NW as well as either YTD EQM or Lifetime EQM. It *appeared* that the value of the specific ticket you were flying on didn't play too big of a role. This program was designed to specifically reward those travelers that have stuck with NW for the long haul if you will. My experience: I only missed one international upgrade while this program was in effect (technically two but that's a different story). The upgrade I missed was MSP-AMS and there were five people upgraded so there were a lot more HVC's on that flight who outranked me. I don't have my records in front of me but I enjoyed the phantom upgrade on DTW-AMS (several times), MSP-AMS, SEA-NRT, ICN-NRT, NRT-SEA, etc. Hope this helps. PS - there were times I was upgraded after I had already boarded. NW was always VERY GOOD about coming on board to move someone up who had been upgraded, domestic or international. -RM |
Originally Posted by RobOnLI
(Post 14600236)
NW Phantom Upgrade program worked like this:
Flight Eligibility: US to Europe, US to Asia, Asia to US, within Asia. The reason Europe to the US didn't work is because all of the European stations are managed by KL or third party staff (and I believe they ran on a completely different mainframe. I might be wrong about this fact). Elite Eligibility: Platinum and Gold Elite only. How it worked: based on seat availability up to five elites as defined above would be upgraded to the WBC cabin at the gate, usually 15 minutes before boarding. NW wasn't forthcoming with the exact criteria for selecting the five lucky flyer's but it was generally believed to be Plat first, Gold second. Then within the elite ranks it was based on LTV (long term value) to NW as well as either YTD EQM or Lifetime EQM. It *appeared* that the value of the specific ticket you were flying on didn't play too big of a role. This program was designed to specifically reward those travelers that have stuck with NW for the long haul if you will. My experience: I only missed one international upgrade while this program was in effect (technically two but that's a different story). The upgrade I missed was MSP-AMS and there were five people upgraded so there were a lot more HVC's on that flight who outranked me. I don't have my records in front of me but I enjoyed the phantom upgrade on DTW-AMS (several times), MSP-AMS, SEA-NRT, ICN-NRT, NRT-SEA, etc. Hope this helps. PS - there were times I was upgraded after I had already boarded. NW was always VERY GOOD about coming on board to move someone up who had been upgraded, domestic or international. -RM +1. I received 5 total Phantoms and they were not op-ups but confirmed phantoms. This was indeed a structured and managed process though it was not publicised or stated as a benefit. The GA (and in one case the Plat Line) informed me of the PU and thanked me for my business. It really was a great program. 1. Not a published benefit so there is no fighting for them. You get it you know it...you don't, that's life. 2. By limiting it to 5 per flight NW ensured that Plats would not "roll the dice" on a phantom and thus take away revenue. It was never a sure thing and if you really wanted Biz you would pay for it. 3. They only did it on flights that had the space and would have otherwise gone out empty. 4. It was EFFECTIVE! There is nothing like a surprise "thank you" that is tangible to keep flyer's loyal. I enjoyed those upgrades more than any other WBC flights I took and I took dozens. It is kind of like getting a bottle of wine (well it depends on the bottle) for a Holiday bonus and getting a check for $5k. That is a REAL incentive to be loyal and know that loyalty is appreciated. If DL is on the fence on this they need to talk to people who were part of it. It was a great program and I really believe it cost almost nothing for NW to do it (other than the time spent managing it). |
I don't understand this thread.
12 years of Medallion and I've been upgraded TATL a grand total of 5 times. In all cases Y was oversold. |
Originally Posted by Gargoyle
(Post 14599423)
As was explained to us at the RTW/DO last year, the first rule of phantom upgrades is you don't talk about phantom upgrades. The second rule of the phantom upgrade program is, you DO NOT talk about phantom upgrades ..."
If it had existed it would have allowed (as noted previously) a max of 5 elites to be upgraded when WBC seats were unsold as of departure time. It represented zero cost (hint for Jeff) for the airline. Since the program never existed, it was never a published benefit, and elites couldn't complain if they didn't get the upgrade. It would be great if something that never existed could "not exist" again. |
Yes they were there, I was beneficiary of them. I would intentional
I notice I am flying in Y all the time on TPAC now. M too expensive to justify even with the platinum SWU's. However I like the suggestion of calling up Y passengers by status and offer empty BE seats for the SWU certificates at the gate. |
Originally Posted by thesaints
(Post 14600450)
I don't understand this thread.
12 years of Medallion and I've been upgraded TATL a grand total of 5 times. In all cases Y was oversold. The Phantom Upgrades were NOT op-ups. |
>>>>>>The reason you don't understand is because you were a DL flyer, and not a NWA flyer. This program was just for NWA elites on the US-AMS and TPAC flights. Never published and never acknowledged by the agents or management.
And it happened in the period after the DL merger was announced, but prior to the full DL-NW integration. |
I was NEVER upgraded as part of the phantom upgrade program... But I certainly kept buying tickets on NW, even when it was more expensive to do so, in part because of the possibility that it might happen.
I should say that I don't buy WBC/BE, not because I don't want to, but because I simply cant afford to. And my job doesn't allow me to (Uncle Sam frowns upon that sort of thing for employees at my level). |
Northwest Phantum Program
All of the questions, answers, and experiences for the NW phantum program can be found in this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/north...al-travel.html. You can see it took a while for us to understand the unpublished program.
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Originally Posted by SpinzCity
(Post 14600538)
And it happened in the period after the DL merger was announced, but prior to the full DL-NW integration.
I asked the same question on the return flight; the KL GA looked at me like I had totally flipped out. |
Phantom upgrades were an unpublished program which no one from NWA management ever acknowledged as existing. I guess, they realized, the good times for us were coming to an end and they gave us a farewell gift. At the time I was a PE ( had been for 8+ years ) and I got Phantom upgrades DTW-AMS, DTW-FRA. I remember, that both times I was unceremoniously called to the podium to receive my WBC boarding pass. I thanked the agent and expressed my sadness about the upcoming merger. Thanks NWA, I will always remember that gesture of appreciation. Never flew DL!
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I was a lucky recipient of 2 phantom upgrades (SEA-NRT and SFO-NRT) when the program ran. In the first case, I inquired at the gate about the possibility of an upgrade and was given a seat in WBC, and for SFO-NRT, I was running late for the flight and when my ticket was scanned at the gate the gate agent said "we've been paging you!", and handed me a ticket for WBC.
If I remember correctly, NW had some way internally of determining the worth of a customer, and that figured into how they determined who would get these phantom upgrades. At the time, I had only flown with NW for about 2 or 3 years at the time and was a platinum who almost always bought the cheapest fares possible. |
My thanks for Gargoyle for starting this thread, and also my thanks to all the folks who came over from NWA for explaining. the phantom upgrade program.
As folks have said, it certainly sounds like a nice way to say "thank you" to valuable customers. Sort of like finding a prize in a box of cracker jack, except nicer! Someone suggested that Delta should consider offering a similar program, except requiring an SWU to get the upgrade. I think that requiring an SWU would sort of obscure the intent of the program to thank customers for their patronage. |
Being relatively new to posting, I was wondering if there are any recent unexpected UGs on TATL flights. I am flying MSP to CDG this week and Y appears to be completely full (I have been looking for something up front in Y and no luck changing). There are 15 or so open BE seats... would the GA move medallions to BE with it being half full? I fly the route often and either have BE seat or an M fare, this time, those fares were cost prohibative this time. I prefer working on the plane and obviously the BE seat is better suited for working.
Just wondering. Thanks. |
Originally Posted by SYRRDU
(Post 14656118)
I am flying MSP to CDG this week and Y appears to be completely full (I have been looking for something up front in Y and no luck changing). There are 15 or so open BE seats.
Note that this is quite different from a phantom upgrade. |
Originally Posted by SYRRDU
(Post 14656118)
Being relatively new to posting, I was wondering if there are any recent unexpected UGs on TATL flights. I am flying MSP to CDG this week and Y appears to be completely full (I have been looking for something up front in Y and no luck changing). There are 15 or so open BE seats... would the GA move medallions to BE with it being half full? I fly the route often and either have BE seat or an M fare, this time, those fares were cost prohibative this time. I prefer working on the plane and obviously the BE seat is better suited for working.
Just wondering. Thanks. |
Originally Posted by Gargoyle
(Post 14656211)
Anecdotal evidence is that the TATL op-ups have become more common this year. It seems to be a combination of diminished capacity and increasing bookings. The high load factors result in situations like you describe, which are ideal opportunities for an op-up.
Note that this is quite different from a phantom upgrade. |
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