AM-PM-DM

Hello fellow SEA FTers.

In the past I have done all my SEA EU travel on DL metal mainly via AMS or DTW. I have a few flights to arrange and are wondering about the AF/CDG option.
I am flying a mix of J and Y so accounts on both experiences on AF are very welcome.
Also any experience using millage awards on AF.

Thanks in advance.

RobOnLI

There's already a separate thread going right now about the differences in "J" product between AF and DL. You should go to that thread.

AF uses a combination of the A330 and the A340 to SEA, depending on the day of the week it seems. DL only uses the A330.

Many find the service and food on DL better than that on AF.

-RM

AM-PM-DM

Thanks. I am actually reading that thread. I was tempted to post there, but the thread drifted a bit. Furthermore I am specifically interested in AF out of SEA including Y. Not J only.

Winkdaddy

Wow, I never would have thought this...is it because many Delta customers like more traditional "American" food that DL offers rather then French cuisine, or is it because there is a general consensus that AF food is poor quality overall?

Certainly the AF wine blows DL out of the water?

mnbp

You might want to specify your final destination(s) in the EU for more feedback. From what I understand, connections in AMS vs CDG are very different experiences.

stephem

A couple of thoughts...
Based on dozens of times on each of these 2 carriers on these 2 routes, I don't think I can name 2 other carriers where the hard and soft products are so close, although I think they are both just average and wildly inconsistent from flight to flight. From my experience, when the AF flight crews are good, they are better than the best DL/NW crews.

As far as equipment, there are actually 2 DL flights now (not sure it's the case all days of the week) and the later one (although a better timing in my opinion) is one of the DL767s with recliner seats. If you are like me, you'll want to avoid that.

GBadger

IMO: AMS>>CDG...
Friends don't let friends connect at CDG...

Monoblet

I do this trip quite a bit and I usually mix and match metal depending on my travels within the EU. I agree with all that has been said already, but would add that when traveling with my family ( two young boys) I always choose the AMS connection and when flying solo I lean toward the AF experience.

AM-PM-DM

Thanks all for your input so far.

Haha, I could not have said it better . I am painfully aware of CDG connection issue. Just not originating in SEA.

I fly on to FRA 50% of the time, and the rest is quite a mixed bag. I actually quite like AMS. I connect through it the last 10 years and I navigate it in my sleep by now. Ways are long, and I sometimes get tired of the "It can not be done.", but hey, I take that any day over the CDG attitude.

Could you elaborate what makes you prefer AF flying solo?
The limitless champagne???

I had the best and the worst crews on the SEA AMS flight. Lately, the flight crews are on the not so great side.

The new late departure 763 flight is Fri/Sat/Sun (Mon/Sat/Sun for the AMS-SEA). I so do not like this 763, that I avoid this flight as well. I actually prefer to arrive in the early AM compared to noonish. A Provigil(R) with breakfast and you are ready to go...

On of the things for me having mainly stuck with the SEA AMS route is my DM status. It afforded me several TPAC OP-UPs this year on DL when flying in Y. I am sure AF does not care about me being DM at all.

Any particular thoughts on travel in Y?
Anyone know when Premium Voyageur will come to AF 306/309?

Again thanks all for your input.

Mill Creek Don

My rankings on some other factors besides onboard product:x

Connection ease: AMS (if you don't mind walking)
Carts within terminal: AMS
Shower Availability: AMS
Breakfast munchies: AMS KL Crown Lounges
Lounge convenience: CDG (more of them, and nearer to gates)
Lounge power ports: AMS
Baggage allowance : DL to AMS
Shopping: AMS

Onboard items:

Wine: AF
Food: AF (by a hair to Europe, significantly better to SEA)
Service: AF in Y, DL in J

One possible thing that I don't think gets mentioned.....if in J, your intra-Europe connection through AMS puts you into Select on KL, which is really nothing to write home about. 6 abreast on a 737. If in intra-Europe J on AF, you get the blocked off middle seat and a nicer experience. Perhaps not significant on a short hop, but it can make a difference in those coin-flip situations.

Monoblet

Much MUCH better looking FA's on AF

Erin.Norge

Was recently on the SEA to AMS flight with Delta and it was a lousy experience. The service has gone so far downhill since the NWA Airbus 330 days. I will do everything I can to avoid flying delta SEA to AMS anymore, which is such a pity since SAS cut their SEA to CPH flight (fewer choices for touch-down-less travel to the continent now).

Pity Delta refleeted the Airbus from the SEA AMS flight for the uncomfortable, poorly maintained Boeing 767 :-(

(And the food! So much worse! Fatty, bland, and making me feel worse for the wear).

RobOnLI

DL has no refleeted the Airbus. DL has added a second daily SEA-AMS flight that is the 763. Yes, it's a much worse experience than the A330. I'm not sure how you book your flights but you should have noticed that DL operates 2x daily on most days and the first flight is always the A333.

Likewise, on the return AMS-SEA, there are two flights and the morning flight is the A333 the later flight is the 763.

-RM

MSPeconomist

I would echo Mill Creek Don's comments about AF versus KL for the flights within Europe, although if your final destination is in France, AF offers one-class economy-only flights to those destinations, mostly through Orly, so that I find it better to avoid CDG if I'm going to France because EuroSelect is still better than plain whY and AMS is a much better airport. At least in the past, KLM would assign nice forward economy seats to (NW) elites; I'm not sure what the situation is now or how AF treats partner elites.

Have you considered proximity of the lounge at SEA to the AF gates as well as who does ground handling for the AF flight? DL, AF staff, or airport contract employees? I do not have a high opinion of most contract workers. Also for your Y segments TATL, will AF allow you to reserve a good seat in advance or get access to their better seats for free? A good tiebreaker might be to consider the Y seats that you would likely get for the long segments. Another tiebreaker might be not only connecting time at AMS/CDG, but time until the following departure if IROPs happen. (On the return here, the later AMS flight on the hated 767 would seem to win, but I'm thinking more of the intra-EU outbound flights.)

If you're traveling at a time when European airports are busy (including early morning in AMS to some extent as well as summer and other holidays), the passport control lines at AMS between schengen and long-haul and vice versa can be very bad unless you hold an EU (etc.) passport, although if you originate in AMS, the separate elite lines are very efficient after you find them. Otherwise, AMS clearly dominates CDG as an airport experience, although if you must overnight at CDG, the Sheraton is great if you can get it at a reasonable rate.

Can you force the routing through AMS in one direction and CDG for the other without driving up the fare by a large amount? You'll probably have to call DL for the mixed J/Y itinerary anyway.

AM-PM-DM

Agreed. My experience as well.
To FRA only every other KL flight has EuropeSelect. Frankly, I do not care about the short hop as much. But then I am the guy who really loved the 5th seat in the back row of AS Q200. This was like riding in a bus.

Good point. I avoid the 767 at almost all cost. On the 333, if I am stuck in Y, you will find me in 10/29 B/H. Never had a problem reserving those. Not sure how to accomplish this on AF. Anyone having experience with that?

For FRA it is a wash. For other destinations there are usually much less frequent flights.

Lucky me, I do indeed still hold an EU passport. However, there is a way around. If the line is awfully long, just exit land side as if you would go to AMS. Then use the efficient elite lines you already know for re-entry. Usually less than 5 min. Compared to even the EU line, which sometimes can take 15+ minutes.

Also, there is the "priority" line (forgot the actual name). It is very restrictive, so even a J ticket would not let you use it. However, if you are a T-30min (worked up to T-45min once) to your connecting flight, the agents will let you though. They actually make sure that you get to the front of the X-ray machine line, if there is no dedicated one.

The main reason for me to stick with DL metal, is my 5/6 OP-UP this year. When flying back from FRA, I usually fly FRA-DTW-SEA (ATL if necessary). In FRA you get OPed UP already at check-in. I usually state that I have seen that the flight is "sehr voll" (pretty full). The GAs usually smile and say "Let us see what we can do". I once had a GA profusely apologize, as he only had an isle seat in row 1. I was not complaining .

Again thanks all for your thoughtful advise.